Fire & Ice Girls: Sexist Anachronism?

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

The various forms of entertainment on ice and off the ice certainly make for a more enticing environment. Without crowd excitement and energy going to a game would be akin to going to church (a place where I stopped visiting about 13 years ago.)

Well at least in church you're allowed to sit amongst women and stare at them if you so please.

What would be nice, however, is to turn the dome into the mosque of hockey where women (who need to be covered up from head to toe obviously) all sit in the nosebleeds separated from the men. That way nobody is distracted from the sanctity of watching hockey.

[Burninator]

Originally Posted by Ne7en

Why the hell would you have an overweight middle-aged male/or/female shovel the ice? Would they have the ability to shovel on skates? I willing to bet majority of these girls play some form of hockey/ringette/etc.

Yes I am sure an overweight middle-age person could operate a shovel on skates. That does not seem out of the realm of possibility at all. But I think you missed his point.

The Flames have a crew of a couple guys that take care of the ice at the Saddledome. They are the guys that drive the zambonis, move the nets, fix the post holes, fix broken glass etc. They also use to shovel the ice around the benches and net, now the Fire and Ice girls do that. Middle-aged men in tracksuits use to do it. They added pretty girls because men like to look at pretty girls. Simple as that.

[jammies]

Originally Posted by devel

Would it not be smarter to engage all the fans instead of (using your numbers) leaving out a third that paid to sit in those seats?

Not really, if by "engage" you mean trying to be all things to all people. To grow your market share by attracting non-sports fans to your sport is much harder than just trying to get sports fans to follow your sport in preference or addition to others; since more men are sports fans than women, the logical thing to do is market to men's preferences more than women's.

The problem is, I suppose, in whether you believe men like sports more than women because sports cater to men, or whether you believe the reverse, that sports cater to men because they like sports more. I think the latter is the case, and as I said, until pro women's sports are as popular as men's, all the marketing focus in the world isn't going to change that.

As far as the Fire & Ice girls go, I think whether it's anachronistically sexist or not is the wrong question. We should worry less about the visual objectification of women, and worry more about sex being demonized, fetishized and objectified in itself. There is very little correlation between the amount of skin you see in public and the respectful treatment of women, or else Saudi Arabia would be the world's safest, least misogynist, and most progressive place for women to live.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by ranchlandsselling

Actually I don't shave in the morning because I prefer the look of a bit of facial hair. Additional benefits include time not wasted/rash/dry skin. It's also become slightly fashionable, which I find a little annoying since I've always been this way.

As the husband of a woman who runs a women’s fashion blog you should know that... Wait, what you said is irrelevant as you're clearly biased by what your wife says. Yoga pants aren't fashionable. Riiight... LuluLemon has a market cap of 4.6 billion USD because women are lazy. What's the market cap of your wife's blog?

You can believe what you like, but it is laziness (and yoga/jogging).

They are throwin' somethin' on pants.

The below the waist equivalent of a ponytail.

[DuffMan]

they should hire themselves out to come over and shovel your driveway,

[polak]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

You can believe what you like, but it is laziness (and yoga/jogging).

They are throwin' somethin' on pants.

The below the waist equivalent of a ponytail.

You clearly haven't seen a real below the waist ponytail before.

It's more of a pube bun... a Pun.

[combustiblefuel]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

You can believe what you like, but it is laziness (and yoga/jogging).

They are throwin' somethin' on pants.

The below the waist equivalent of a ponytail.

No way it's just them being lazy.

I'll try to find the fashion article I read but It compared "spanks" as the modern day girttle.
I know a few woman who wear them because the make everything look perfect.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by combustiblefuel

I know a few woman who wear them because the make everything look perfect.

These women are likely not fashionable. Don't confuse "fashionable" with "popular", or "correctional for old people".

EDIT: Also this is getting really OT.

[combustiblefuel]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

These women are likely not fashionable.

One of them is a regular contributor for Fashion Magazine.

But she must be wrong. Making statements like that " there lazy, and they or likely not fashionabl. Men are lazy if they don't shave) with out any real facts or knowledge of the person is really presumptuous.

Facts are Facial hair and spanks are in style right now. The "10 day " facial hair look is polled as the most desirable facial style preferred by woman .

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by combustiblefuel

Facts are Facial hair and spanks are in style right now. The "10 day " facial hair look is polled as the most desirable facial style preferred by woman .

10 day look? Damn, I'm doing it all wrong. I thought it was supposed to be 2 or 3 days. I guess I can trim less frequently now.

[devel]

Originally Posted by jammies

Not really, if by "engage" you mean trying to be all things to all people. To grow your market share by attracting non-sports fans to your sport is much harder than just trying to get sports fans to follow your sport in preference or addition to others; since more men are sports fans than women, the logical thing to do is market to men's preferences more than women's.

The problem is, I suppose, in whether you believe men like sports more than women because sports cater to men, or whether you believe the reverse, that sports cater to men because they like sports more. I think the latter is the case, and as I said, until pro women's sports are as popular as men's, all the marketing focus in the world isn't going to change that.

As far as the Fire & Ice girls go, I think whether it's anachronistically sexist or not is the wrong question. We should worry less about the visual objectification of women, and worry more about sex being demonized, fetishized and objectified in itself. There is very little correlation between the amount of skin you see in public and the respectful treatment of women, or else Saudi Arabia would be the world's safest, least misogynist, and most progressive place for women to live.

I know that is how it is, but I don't have to agree with it.

Are the F&I girls there to grow the fan base? People go for the girls and hockey is secondary? IMO, If the Flames (and NHL) want to grow the fan base they should be marketing to young people of both sexes. Start the kids out young, so they become fans for life.

Who is demonizing sex? I enjoy sex and enjoy looking at a handsome scantily clad male too but there is a place and time for everything. It is a huge part of our society, but again, I don't feel it necessary to be shoved in our faces at an event that is for all ages and both genders. Even if the male to female ratio is 2 to 1.

[ranchlandsselling]

The reality is as simple as Darwin's theory of evolution and survival of the most fit. All things equal I'm going to mate with the most physically suitable mate, that's what I'm attracted to, to suggest otherwise is being ignorant (and it goes for both sexes). Yeah, there's preferences, some people like bigger/smaller/more tall/short etc. but in a vacuum I'd wager the majority would pick the most physically fit mate.

The world knows and understands this and may or may not choose to market on it. If you can't accept that you're probably going to find a lot of things to complain about for the rest of your life. Seems like a pretty unhappy way to exist. If you are one of those people and would like to fight "the good fight" there's probably better fights to pick that are more worthy than the F&I girls even though my comment will just generate those same rhetorical "suggesting there's something worse to worry about doesn't mean we shouldn't fight this" responses.

No one taught me to be attracted to tight bodies and pretty faces and I don't think the Flames are doing anything wrong by having the F&I girls shovel the snow. Just like I didn't care about going to Cowboys in my late teens after ladies night and knowing there was some cheesy dudes jumping around half naked, or the bartenders there were wearing tight shirts over their budging arms and chest. Rodeo cowboys and male country stars wear the tightest fitting wranglers that have no practical purpose to wear, Tom cruise usually removes his shirt about 10 times in every movie he's ever in, ditto for any other attractive movie star. You don't hear the men complaining about the Avengers movie in which Thor and Captain America are strutting their stuff showing their chiselled bodies I'm judged for not having, and Robert Downey Jr. is looking all sexified in a suit I could never afford.

[ExiledFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by devel

Who is demonizing sex? I enjoy sex and enjoy looking at a handsome scantily clad male too but there is a place and time for everything. It is a huge part of our society, but again, I don't feel it necessary to be shoved in our faces at an event that is for all ages and both genders. Even if the male to female ratio is 2 to 1.

What is the time and where is the place? Should goodlooking fit people be censored and only show off their physiques in certain places? What are these places? And who is to decide where and when you can see a shirtless guy?

[showtime]

Originally Posted by devel

I know that is how it is, but I don't have to agree with it.

Are the F&I girls there to grow the fan base? People go for the girls and hockey is secondary? IMO, If the Flames (and NHL) want to grow the fan base they should be marketing to young people of both sexes. Start the kids out young, so they become fans for life.

Who is demonizing sex? I enjoy sex and enjoy looking at a handsome scantily clad male too but there is a place and time for everything. It is a huge part of our society, but again, I don't feel it necessary to be shoved in our faces at an event that is for all ages and both genders. Even if the male to female ratio is 2 to 1.

The F and I girls do countless community and charity events. And I have seen the way girls faces light up and rush to see them and get autographs. So it would seem like they are doing a part in growing the fan base for young girls.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by ExiledFlamesFan

who is to decide where and when you can see a shirtless guy?

Depends, are they at work?

[ExiledFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Depends, are they at work?

Actors are required to be shirtless on screen. Is this a problem for you as well?

Were you this offended about Magic Mike too?

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by ExiledFlamesFan

Were you this offended about Magic Mike too?

Not yet, is it on the Jumbotron during stoppages?

[ExiledFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Not yet, is it on the Jumbotron during stoppages?

I assume you boycott all companies that use attractive people to sell products.

A man of principle. Good for you

I'll gladly take your flames season tickets. Those damn fire and ice girls. And mascots. And yoga pants. And every other thing you hate

[Chill Cosby]

Originally Posted by ExiledFlamesFan

I assume you boycott all companies that use attractive people to sell products.



A man of principle. Good for you



I'll gladly take your flames season tickets. Those damn fire and ice girls. And mascots. And yoga pants. And every other thing you hate

Do you have to boycott everything you complain about?

I mean, if that were true, you'd have stopped posting here at least a couple months ago. But here you are. Strong as ever!

[saillias]

I think it's kind of funny because hockey is a base-instincts gladiator sport. Men speeding around at high velocities in an arena bashing into each other, and covered head to toe in body armor. It's part of city culture to introduce kids to these games. The modern sports arena is also basically a massive tavern. Thousands of men jacked up on testosterone from being at said gladiator sport consuming as much alcohol as they want. The NHL hockey game isn't the place to pick a fight about sexism.