Wal-Mart Fat Girl Costumes

[Devils'Advocate]

Now that's a damn good question SJ. It's obviously meant to be hurtful, and has no place in civil discourse. But I wouldn't be near as insulted. Probably because of the historical baggage AND the societal pressures. There are plenty of bald male celebrities that are seen as "sexy". When called "baldy" there isn't any further connotations. But when called "fat" there are connotations there. Those connotations don't follow "plus sized". But fat carries with it "lazy, disgusting slob". You may not say those words but we hear it.

And I have heard, in private, those words strung out by people who don't know my history. So I know those perceptions exist. And it's not a tiny fraction of society that believe those links.

[photon]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

True weight loss is a lifestyle not an industrial product. There are very few people in this world that were born to be fat.

So you'll be able to show the statistics that demonstrate how successful sustained significant weight loss through lifestyle change is then? If you take out all the quick fix stuff, the lifestyle change route must be what, 90% successful?

EDIT: And your post is a perfect example of why it's more derogatory than bald or short, the implication being one is just something has to endure, the other is assumed to be a choice by the person.

Like many words it can be used in an incidental way or it can be used in a derogatory way, I don't have a problem with the word itself but it is frequently used to shame someone for no other reason than they are fat.

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

The diet and weight loss industry is largely based on quick fixes. True weight loss is a lifestyle not an industrial product.

I really, really, really hate agreeing with Erick, but in this case I have to. I think the vast majority of obese people could lose sufficient weight to lead healthy lives if they were to accept a lifestyle change. But there is more than one step from "I won't do it" to "I did it" and many people get lost on the steps in between.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

The diet and weight loss industry is largely based on quick fixes. True weight loss is a lifestyle not an industrial product. There are very few people in this world that were born to be fat.

Lifestyle change is not easy.

You comment that "most people could easily lose weight is they wanted to" is wrong.

Weight loss requires (for most people) a lifestyle change.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

I really, really, really hate agreeing with Erick, but in this case I have to. I think the vast majority of obese people could lose sufficient weight to lead healthy lives if they were to accept a lifestyle change. But there is more than one step from "I won't do it" to "I did it" and many people get lost on the steps in between.

His contention that people could "easily" drop weight is wrong.


Was it easy for you?

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by photon

So you'll be able to show the statistics that demonstrate how successful sustained significant weight loss through lifestyle change is then? If you take out all the quick fix stuff, the lifestyle change route must be what, 90% successful?

There are none. Studying "lifestyle change" is near impossible because what that means for one person could mean another to someone else. So a study would need to have rigid guidelines which would be hard to ensure that they were following.

I think the REVERSE can be studied. If we look at the National Weight Control Registry of people who have been successful, 100% of them lost and are maintaining by "lifestyle change".

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Was it easy for you?

F#@&, no.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

F#@&, no.

Thanks that is my point.


EE say that "Most people could easily lose weight if they really wanted to" is wrong and why the diet and weight loss industry is able to prey on people.

[photon]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

I think the vast majority of obese people could lose sufficient weight to lead healthy lives if they were to accept a lifestyle change.

Even if they did they'd still fall within the definition of visibly fat for most and still be subject to the ridicule.

That's why the focus with one's doctor (and by extension society's acceptance) should be around health, not visible body shape.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by photon

Even if they did they'd still fall within the definition of visibly fat for most and still be subject to the ridicule.

That's why the focus with one's doctor (and by extension society's acceptance) should be around health, not visible body shape.

I know lots of physically fit fat people.

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by photon

Even if they did they'd still fall within the definition of visibly fat for most and still be subject to the ridicule.

That's why the focus with one's doctor (and by extension society's acceptance) should be around health, not visible body shape.

Your lips to the Flying Spaghetti Monster's ears....

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

EE say that "Most people could easily lose weight if they really wanted to" is wrong and why the diet and weight loss industry is able to prey on people.

I missed the "easily". And I REALLY, REALLY could not agree more. I am starting a podcast called "Healthy Skeptics" where we look at the diet and weight loss industry and profile people who have successfully lost weight or are losing weight through lifestyle changes, not through gimmicks or fads. Did my first recording last night, doing my second tomorrow. Hope to launch in December.

[ranchlandsselling]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

Now that's a damn good question SJ. It's obviously meant to be hurtful, and has no place in civil discourse. But I wouldn't be near as insulted. Probably because of the historical baggage AND the societal pressures. There are plenty of bald male celebrities that are seen as "sexy". When called "baldy" there isn't any further connotations. But when called "fat" there are connotations there. Those connotations don't follow "plus sized". But fat carries with it "lazy, disgusting sloth". You may not say those words but we hear it.

I don't agree with this at all.

I think it's subjective to the person hearing it. Part of being human is to learn to accept what/who you are. For some people that are "fat" and whether or not that is by choice they have to find a way to accept that. Part of accepting oneself also means accepting there's people out there that are mean/cruel and would say things to people with connotations and others that might be saying them without. There’s a fine line to walk between being sensitive to others and being just down right sensitive. If you want to change who you are you should do it because you believe that change is the right thing for you. Screw changing because YOU think people think less of you.

Generally people are their own worst enemies. It’s your choice how you react to what someone says. My feelings are generally my own responsibility and how I deal with those feelings is also my responsibility. I wondered about posting the article at all because of the “connotations” of it, but then figured what the heck, I don’t have any issues with the size of people and I’m not posting this to laugh at “fat” people. If someone interprets it that way, so be it, not really my problem.

If I say I'm fat I'm not suggesting I'm a lazy disgusting sloth. And sloths are cute, not disgusting so lets leave them out of this!

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

His contention that people could "easily" drop weight is wrong.

I think you just like to argue. Even an obese person with a genetic disorder could easily lose 10 lbs. It wouldn't make a noticeable difference in appearance but it's still weight loss.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

I really, really, really hate agreeing with Erick, but in this case I have to. I think the vast majority of obese people could lose sufficient weight to lead healthy lives if they were to accept a lifestyle change. But there is more than one step from "I won't do it" to "I did it" and many people get lost on the steps in between.

Ha ha ha. Don't feel bad. Everyone eventually says that same thing.

[polak]

Originally Posted by ranchlandsselling

I don't agree with this at all.

I think it's subjective to the person hearing it. Part of being human is to learn to accept what/who you are. For some people that are "fat" and whether or not that is by choice they have to find a way to accept that. Part of accepting oneself also means accepting there's people out there that are mean/cruel and would say things to people with connotations and others that might be saying them without. There’s a fine line to walk between being sensitive to others and being just down right sensitive. If you want to change who you are you should do it because you believe that change is the right thing for you. Screw changing because YOU think people think less of you.

Generally people are their own worst enemies. It’s your choice how you react to what someone says. My feelings are generally my own responsibility and how I deal with those feelings is also my responsibility. I wondered about posting the article at all because of the “connotations” of it, but then figured what the heck, I don’t have any issues with the size of people and I’m not posting this to laugh at “fat” people. If someone interprets it that way, so be it, not really my problem.

If I say I'm fat I'm not suggesting I'm a lazy disgusting sloth. And sloths are cute, not disgusting so lets leave them out of this!

Solid post!

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

F#@&, no.

And that illustrates why so many fail. You have to really, really want it and not everyone can do it. As I said before though you don't have to get skinny or thin. You only have to drop some weight to get closer to a healthy body/weight index. A 300 lbs person losing 25 lbs is still a big person but it's a positive to be 275 instead of 300 lbs.

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by ranchlandsselling

I don't agree with this at all.

I think it's subjective to the person hearing it. Part of being human is to learn to accept what/who you are. For some people that are "fat" and whether or not that is by choice they have to find a way to accept that. Part of accepting oneself also means accepting there's people out there that are mean/cruel and would say things to people with connotations and others that might be saying them without. There’s a fine line to walk between being sensitive to others and being just down right sensitive. If you want to change who you are you should do it because you believe that change is the right thing for you. Screw changing because YOU think people think less of you.

Generally people are their own worst enemies. It’s your choice how you react to what someone says. My feelings are generally my own responsibility and how I deal with those feelings is also my responsibility. I wondered about posting the article at all because of the “connotations” of it, but then figured what the heck, I don’t have any issues with the size of people and I’m not posting this to laugh at “fat” people. If someone interprets it that way, so be it, not really my problem.

If I say I'm fat I'm not suggesting I'm a lazy disgusting sloth. And sloths are cute, not disgusting so lets leave them out of this!

Well, when we discuss the Washington Redskins, it is the disparaged that determine if the term is offensive. This is just a flowery way of saying "grow a pair and man up". Trust me, sticks and stones may break my bones but names DEFINITELY hurt more.

My blog on this topic:
http://halfthemassiusedtobe.wordpres...often-hurt-me/

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

And that illustrates why so many fail. You have to really, really want it and not everyone can do it. As I said before though you don't have to get skinny or thin. You only have to drop some weight to get closer to a healthy body/weight index. A 300 lbs person losing 25 lbs is still a big person but it's a positive to be 275 instead of 300 lbs.

It's more than "really, really wanting it". Let's go through those steps.

First, you have to realize that there is a problem. Most people live in denial.
Second you have to believe in yourself enough that you think you can do it. As per my CTV interview, I was stuck on this step for DECADES.
Third, you have to REALLY, REALLY want it because it is hard to change.
Then you have to know how to do it. A lot of people get this far and then get lost in all the information, misinformation and disinformation out there.
Then once you finally figured out how you want to approach it you actually have to make the bold step of TAKING ACTION.

My running team that I mentioned in the interview, the twelve of us that have lost a combined 1500 pounds, we've decided to get team jackets. The back is going to read "The miracle is not that I finished. The miracle is that I had the courage to start." Every single one of us on the team can identify with that sentiment.

[photon]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

There are none. Studying "lifestyle change" is near impossible because what that means for one person could mean another to someone else. So a study would need to have rigid guidelines which would be hard to ensure that they were following.

I think the REVERSE can be studied. If we look at the National Weight Control Registry of people who have been successful, 100% of them lost and are maintaining by "lifestyle change".

It would be monitored by medical professionals with the guidance given by doctors. There have been studies and they've been posted in similar threads where weight loss success based on lifestyle changes rather than explicit diets had been measured. I asked EE for the positive studies because the ease he says should be easy to demonstrate. The studies I've seen all point to near impossible.

100% of successful people having to have lifestyle change as a component doesn't mean much if that 100% is only 5% of those that attempted lifestyle change.

Imagine any other condition where the doctor prescribed a solution where only 5% of the population was capable of doing it. If a physio program had only 5% chance of restoring walking they'd be very up front with that. But with obesity doctors just say 'oh just exercise more and eat better' and imply a 100% success rate, not the actual 5%.