Sven

[nik-]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Burke was right to throw Sven under the bus coming out of training camp in 2013/2014.

Sven had a terrible development camp, and a terrible training camp and was acting like he didn't have to earn a spot on the team.

Sven is just as much to blame as Burke/Hartley because the rift between Sven and the team started when he pouted his way through the development camp that season when he thought that he shouldn't have needed to attend.

And he then proceeded to play just fine in the actual NHL season until Hartley decided to get clever. And can we stop with this entitlement BS? There's never been any proof of this, yet it's somehow just fine to make #### up about the character of one of our prospects?

Ferland got more support for punching a guy out outside of a bar than Sven does for some perceived attitude problem.

[SuperMatt18]

The entitlement issue was brought up by the local media (Haynes, George Johnson, Guys on the Fan, even Eric Francis have all mentioned it at times). Not sure how I am making it up, you guys just refuse to take the stories as any sort of truth.

Beat writers with the team have mentioned him not wanting to be at development camp or the prospects tournament on multiple occasions.

My point is Baertschi's struggles are not Burke's fault, they started before Burke was even here with him struggling at times during the lockout shortened season.

This post from Darren Haynes chronicles it well

http://flamesfrom80feet.blogspot.ca/...ow-did-we.html

Also not sure if you missed it but I supported Sven in a post just above that. I just feel that it's not all Burke and Hartleys fault like some here would like you to believe, it all started with Sven not giving a damn at development camp/prospect tournament in 2013 but you can be bias and overlook that if you want.

[PeteMoss]

Sven put up some points last year, but he was generally not good. Everyone is in the Edmonton is no good thread yapping about Yakupov not being good at defense. He puts up points at the same rate as Sven last year and we all call him a likely bust and laugh at the Oilers for letting him get away with it. Meanwhile Sven does the same thing and people are in here saying he should get a long term shot at the NHL level.

[Bingo]

I won't pretend to know what goes on in the coaches room, but from what I understand or at least gathered from quotes over the past two seasons is this.

Youth makes mistakes
If said youth understands the mistakes, does video and makes adjustments they're golden
If said youth doesn't understand, and then doesn't learn from the mistakes they're gone

He has talked over and over again about Monahan and Colborne being sponges, he has similar comments about Brodie, and Backlund. He's scratched all but one of them.

But Baertschi was making peewee mistakes and then going out the next game and doing it again. That gets you sent down for development.

This organization has had all but Monahan put in time in the AHL, you have to go there, get it, improve your two way play and get promoted. Baertschi hasn't so he isn't here.

I don't see it as unfair, I see it as the road they all travel. He just can't get off the rumble strips.

[saillias]

Originally Posted by nik-

And he then proceeded to play just fine in the actual NHL season until Hartley decided to get clever. And can we stop with this entitlement BS? There's never been any proof of this, yet it's somehow just fine to make #### up about the character of one of our prospects?

Ferland got more support for punching a guy out outside of a bar than Sven does for some perceived attitude problem.

Cross checking Tim Harrison in the face for a clean hit?

[nik-]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Sven put up some points last year, but he was generally not good. Everyone is in the Edmonton is no good thread yapping about Yakupov not being good at defense. He puts up points at the same rate as Sven last year and we all call him a likely bust and laugh at the Oilers for letting him get away with it. Meanwhile Sven does the same thing and people are in here saying he should get a long term shot at the NHL level.

uhh wut? Define same thing, because Sven's defensive game is nothing like Yakupov's

Did you even watch last season?

[nik-]

Originally Posted by saillias

Cross checking Tim Harrison in the face for a clean hit?

Getting chippy is being entitled? This is news to me.

[442scotty]

They should have kept Sven up all year and ease him in as they did Monahan. He would have been fine. As much as I love Burke, Hartley etc there must be something about Sven that grates on them. Just about everyone can think of someone they know or who they have met.. and this person, while being just great, annoys the hell out of you or finds a way to piss you off and you don't want them around. Sounds like Sven unfortunately.

He needs a change of scenery. Hope they get a decent return on him.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by saillias

Cross checking Tim Harrison in the face for a clean hit?

How does that show a sense of entitlement?

I'd argue Sven got pouty when sent down last season, I wasn't sure of it until Freeway made mention of it last year, but that's not having a sense of entitlement. I liken it to TJ Brodie being pouty and hard to deal with when he was sent down at one point. Brodie had to learn how to be an AHL player first, then return to the NHL. Early success maybe made both prospect a little pouty. Brodie got there, I think Sven will too.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by nik-

uhh wut? Define same thing, because Sven's defensive game is nothing like Yakupov's

Did you even watch last season?

Take it for what you will... but pretty similar terrible Corsi numbers last year for both of them (Yakupov was actually better in that metric)

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by nik-

I just wish they'd give the kid a legit stretch in the show at this point. They were perfectly content with letting Colborne derp his way up the ladder last year and it seems to have helped him. First Hartley benches him when his line was playing really well, and him as a big part of it, then Burke uses him as a demonstration in the Feaster ousting and now here we are.

Apples and oranges. Colborne was a different case as the Flames couldn't send him to the AHL without passing through waivers. Once they made the trade for him they pretty well had to play keep him on the big club and play him or it was a 4th round pick down the drain for nothing. He was pretty rough around the edges but the kid worked his butt off and made a lot of improvement over the season.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Apples and oranges. Colborne was a different case as the Flames couldn't send him to the AHL without passing through waivers. Once they made the trade for him they pretty well had to play keep him on the big club and play him or it was a 4th round pick down the drain for nothing. He was pretty rough around the edges but the kid worked his butt off and made a lot of improvement over the season.

The point is they didn't even put him in the press box. Colborne was garbage for most of last year and was just spoonfed more minutes.

[saillias]

The small team problem was part of it too. Too many creampuffs last year. It's nice to have a C out there who can physically battle with the monster athletes like Ovechkin and Weber.

[thymebalm]

Sven is doing just fine. I understand everyone wants him to be this flashy top-six winger right out the gate, but roster turnovers just don't happen that fast. He JUST turned 22 years old, has a wonderful tool-box that includes hands, speed and IQ, and is growing game-by-game.

Anyone who would want to judge Sven on his AHL stat line likely has no idea just how putrid the Addy Flames have been to start this year. The have a rookie coach, a rookie line-up, a new building, new city, etc. The growing pains are everywhere right now. He'll settle in an establish himself. People cherry-picking stats at the 7 game mark aren't really being fair.

But who says a hockey forum is a place for fairness. Look at a player like Darren Helm or Matt Moulson, sometimes it just takes awhile to have all the pieces (roster space, "200ft game", etc) fall into place. Sven will get there, Treliving said the road to Calgary is through Glen Falls. Let's just let him be for a minute (season).

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Take it for what you will... but pretty similar terrible Corsi numbers last year for both of them (Yakupov was actually better in that metric)

Monahan's numbers were no different than Baertschi's over the amount of games he played last year.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by nik-

The point is they didn't even put him in the press box. Colborne was garbage for most of last year and was just spoonfed more minutes.

I get a laugh out of fans that believe Sven was good in the NHL and then claim guys like Colborne were garbage. It's hard to reason with people like this.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Monahan's numbers were no different than Baertschi's over the amount of games he played last year.

Yes and Monahan was coming right out of his draft and playing a tougher position. Sven was in his draft year +3 so they aren't judged the same way.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I get a laugh out of fans that believe Sven was good in the NHL and then claim guys like Colborne were garbage. It's hard to reason with people like this.

I said he was fine before his first benching. Because he was. He definitely had a lot of bad games after that though and his second and third trips to the press box were warranted. I claimed Colborne was garbage because he was.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by thymebalm

Sven is doing just fine. I understand everyone wants him to be this flashy top-six winger right out the gate, but roster turnovers just don't happen that fast. He JUST turned 22 years old, has a wonderful tool-box that includes hands, speed and IQ, and is growing game-by-game.

Anyone who would want to judge Sven on his AHL stat line likely has no idea just how putrid the Addy Flames have been to start this year. The have a rookie coach, a rookie line-up, a new building, new city, etc. The growing pains are everywhere right now. He'll settle in an establish himself. People cherry-picking stats at the 7 game mark aren't really being fair.

But who says a hockey forum is a place for fairness. Look at a player like Darren Helm or Matt Moulson, sometimes it just takes awhile to have all the pieces (roster space, "200ft game", etc) fall into place. Sven will get there, Treliving said the road to Calgary is through Glen Falls. Let's just let him be for a minute (season).

Not sure that pretending everything is ok and pointing to guys who were drafted much later and are outliers really shows anything.

[Goriders]

My opinion is that there are a number of guys in line ahead of him to make the jump to the NHL (Ferland, Jooris, Grandlund, Bennett, Poirier, maybe Knight/Reinhart). And I can't see there being more than two new young forwards added each year going forward.

He's going to get caught in a numbers game after the next draft. And his production isn't making the case for him to move up the pecking order. Plus the fact he didn't get a ringing endorsement last year from the guy at the top.

I think this is a do or die year for Baertschi. My guess is he'll be involved as a throw in on a trade sometime this season or early next season.