Uniformed Soldier Shot at War Memorial in Ottawa-R.I.P. Cpl. Cirillo

[jar_e]

Most likely irrelevant....

http://globalnews.ca/news/1631648/ot...er-in-calgary/

Global News has learned that the man accused in the shooting at Parliament Hill Wednesday may have been in Calgary before he traveled to Ottawa.

[Flash Walken]

The judiciary is powerful enough to deal with these sorts of issues, talking of stripping citizenship is like a politically correct revenge fantasy.

Participating in ethnic cleansing in a foreign army? Prosecute the individual for Canadian crimes and put them in a Canadian prison or hand them over to the Hague to be tried on international crimes and put in an international prison.

It's a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by _Q_

So here's a question.

Let's say someone like Bibeau, a born and raised Canadian is stripped of his citizenship, where does he go? What happens to him? Does he suddenly become a permanent resident? In that case what was accomplished with stripping his citizenship.

And a follow up to that. What kind of crimes should warrant the removal of someone's citizenship? Where do we draw the line?

Born and raised versus naturalized are two different questions.

Chances are your not going to strip him because he was born here, he was born into his citizenship it wasn't granted in lieu of another citizenship.

There's not much that you can do, however, I'm sure at the very least if someone that went over here and fought on the opposite side of his country he could be charged with treason. But we would have to let him in as by convention, nobody can be countryless.

With someone that came here and established citizenship its a bit easier as you can revoke and request that his former country takes him back, but I think the courts would be very hard to convince because most of these people would be going back to face certain torture and death (no skin off of my back, really)

However I like the idea of establishing an international penal colony that is isolated and they can govern themselves but they can't leave.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

The judiciary is powerful enough to deal with these sorts of issues, talking of stripping citizenship is like a politically correct revenge fantasy.

Participating in ethnic cleansing in a foreign army? Prosecute the individual for Canadian crimes and put them in a Canadian prison or hand them over to the Hague to be tried on international crimes and put in an international prison.

It's a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.

the problem though is that these people would eventually get out because we don't have indefinite prison terms and I doubt that the majority are going to renounce and reform.

The international courts probably wouldn't want to be bothered in having trials for every footsoldier that goes to serve ISIS, their focus would be on the leadership.

[Otto-matic]

Cirillo's dogs - Such a sad sight.

[FireFly]

Originally Posted by Otto-matic

Cirillo's dogs - Such a sad sight.

I think this image touched me more than any other.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

the problem though is that these people would eventually get out because we don't have indefinite prison terms and I doubt that the majority are going to renounce and reform.

The international courts probably wouldn't want to be bothered in having trials for every footsoldier that goes to serve ISIS, their focus would be on the leadership.

Make them register like sex offenders then, or introduce stiff penalties for engaging in foreign warfare.

Revoking citizenship is Orwellian. We are a more advanced society than that.

[Tron_fdc]

Isn't this what Guantanamo was used for?

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by FireFly

I think this image touched me more than any other.

I'm sitting here with my dogs, eyes streaming.

Goddamn.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Tron_fdc

Isn't this what Guantanamo was used for?

Nah, Guantanamo was a prison, governed by America.

A isolated penal colony would be self governed, they'd just literally be isolated.

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Born and raised versus naturalized are two different questions.

Chances are your not going to strip him because he was born here, he was born into his citizenship it wasn't granted in lieu of another citizenship.

There's not much that you can do, however, I'm sure at the very least if someone that went over here and fought on the opposite side of his country he could be charged with treason. But we would have to let him in as by convention, nobody can be countryless.

With someone that came here and established citizenship its a bit easier as you can revoke and request that his former country takes him back, but I think the courts would be very hard to convince because most of these people would be going back to face certain torture and death (no skin off of my back, really)

However I like the idea of establishing an international penal colony that is isolated and they can govern themselves but they can't leave.

But see the issue then becomes that you essentially are creating a two tier citizenship system. I'm not sure that we want to go down that path as a nation.

As a naturalized Canadian this seriously bothers me. Even though I'm a law abiding citizen, the fact that my country, the one in which I have spent all my life in since grade 2 can convict me for a crime and banish me to a place I haven't been to for over 25 years is worrisome. It essentially says "Yeah you're Canadian, but you're not REALLY the same as the rest of us. So behave and we'll let you stay here."

[Tron_fdc]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Nah, Guantanamo was a prison, governed by America.

A isolated penal colony would be self governed, they'd just literally be isolated.

Quick google here:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...etention-obama

I'm not raising an argument or anything, just curious if the US was taking US born citizens and shipping them off to Cuba for being terrorists. The article says "citizens" though, which doesn't necessarily mean US born.

I too am ok with isolated penal colonies, as long as they're the gulag and don't turn into Australia.

[Hugh Jahrmes]

Would there be developed infrastructure? Or just throw them on an island like survivor and have a few bags of rice hidden here and there?

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by _Q_

But see the issue then becomes that you essentially are creating a two tier citizenship system. I'm not sure that we want to go down that path as a nation.

As a naturalized Canadian this seriously bothers me. Even though I'm a law abiding citizen, the fact that my country, the one in which I have spent all my life in since grade 2 can convict me for a crime and banish me to a place I haven't been to for over 25 years is worrisome. It essentially says "Yeah you're Canadian, but you're not REALLY the same as the rest of us. So behave and we'll let you stay here."

Ok, but when you immigrate to Canada you not only agree to become a Canadian with the normal rights and privileges and to good faith integrate into this society. But you also agree to obey the laws of the land.

Therefore to me if you come here and break laws. Of leave to go fight for a terrorist organization haven't you broken that covenant?

I get what your saying about two tier citizenship, but your acceptance and granting of citizenship is under conditions that you have to live up to and these are conditions that are slightly different then citizens that were born here.

Don't know if I'm explaining my position well here.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Hugh Jahrmes

Would there be developed infrastructure? Or just throw them on an island like survivor and have a few bags of rice hidden here and there?

Now now, we can be generous and provide them with flint.
raw rice is tough on the teeth.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Tron_fdc

Quick google here:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...etention-obama

I'm not raising an argument or anything, just curious if the US was taking US born citizens and shipping them off to Cuba for being terrorists. The article says "citizens" though, which doesn't necessarily mean US born.

I too am ok with isolated penal colonies, as long as they're the gulag and don't turn into Australia.

IIRC there were some born in America citizens housed there.

[crazy_eoj]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

IIRC there were some born in America citizens housed there.

I know part of the reason for Guantanamo was dealing with combatants without any citizenship. Keeping them off US soil avoided some legal wrangling in regards to refugee status or something.

Too bad Obama closed this place it would fit for situations like this....

[Madman]

RCMP is showing actual footage of how he got on scene - amazing.

http://www.cbc.ca/player/Shows/ID/2396780283/

He actually did hijack a Minister's car at East Block and drove it up to Center Block.

[Hugh Jahrmes]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Now now, we can be generous and provide them with flint.
raw rice is tough on the teeth.

Rice would be cooked, better find it quick.

[GoinAllTheWay]

Originally Posted by hugh jahrmes

would there be developed infrastructure? or just throw them on an island like survivor and have a few bags of rice hidden here and there?

:d