Flames goaltending is killing our chances at McDavid/Eichel/Hanifin: Discuss

[badger89]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Clearly they were signed to tank, because it's not like they're hockey players or anything. Obviously the plan is to play Diaz on the top defence pairing, call up some scrub from the minors to play 25 minutes a night with him, and then banish Giordano and Brodie to the press box. And above all, re-sign Joey MacDonald or someone even worse to play the majority of games, and whatever you do, don't get an actual NHL-calibre goalie like Hiller. If you've got bad defence and bad goaltending, you can tank to your heart's content.

Oh, wait, they're not doing any of that.

Apparently the management had something else in mind.

They're not players though. They're castoffs, especially Diaz and Setoguchi. I really don't get either signing. Both will be buried in the minors by year end as there are better options (Jooris, Ferland, Granlund, and Wootherspoon are all looking ready to make the jump and able to contribute much better than these off season signings).

Hartley certainly isn't having any part in talking, but you have to wonder about the strategy from above with those signings.

[badger89]

Originally Posted by questionmotives

I'm not sure I understand the vitriol towards the OP. He simply asked for it to be discussed, and frankly, it's a conversation that will inevitably come up this season IF the trend continues - that is, the Flames ride hot goaltending to just miss out on a chance at the lottery.

It's all hypothetical.

I don't believe that tanking actually exists. But if McDavid is the generational player that scouts are speculating him to be, than it would be a shame to miss out on the chance at nabbing him. I know it's the NFL, but I watched my Colts accidentally stumble to a 2 - 14 record and somehow land Andrew Luck a few years ago. What a different story it would have been had they finished 4 - 10 that season.

Agreed! This isn't just any draft. Finishing bottom 4 will ensure a very needed high end talent. But I fully expect us to end up drafting somewhere between 5 and 10. We'll likely end up with a quality player, but it sure would be nice to land another high end talent. A future #1 D would be perfect.

[ThePrince]

Originally Posted by badger89

They're not players though. They're castoffs, especially Diaz and Setoguchi. I really don't get either signing. Both will be buried in the minors by year end as there are better options (Jooris, Ferland, Granlund, and Wootherspoon are all looking ready to make the jump and able to contribute much better than these off season signings).

Hartley certainly isn't having any part in talking, but you have to wonder about the strategy from above with those signings.

I feel like the strategy is pretty simple, they're low risk low dollar signings just in case the kids weren't ready to step up this year, and worst case scenario, you have two players making the nearly the league minimum sitting in the pressbox. There is no downside to the signings that I see...

[saillias]

Originally Posted by badger89

They're not players though. They're castoffs, especially Diaz and Setoguchi. I really don't get either signing. Both will be buried in the minors by year end as there are better options (Jooris, Ferland, Granlund, and Wootherspoon are all looking ready to make the jump and able to contribute much better than these off season signings).

Hartley certainly isn't having any part in talking, but you have to wonder about the strategy from above with those signings.

No, no you don't. There is no season in Flames history, that I can remember, where the GM didn't ensure we had a #7 D in place. Seems like you just want to believe in the tank so bad you'll use whatever evidence you can to make it fit

[BigRed]

Originally Posted by questionmotives

I'm not sure I understand the vitriol towards the OP. He simply asked for it to be discussed, and frankly, it's a conversation that will inevitably come up this season IF the trend continues - that is, the Flames ride hot goaltending to just miss out on a chance at the lottery.

It's cool. I just wanted to start a conversation about whether or not the Flames' good start was a matter of exceptional goaltending masking other weaknesses (if people didn't get the humour of the thread title, then whoops).

That said, we got a conversation -- a pretty good one. It's been really interesting to see the range of opinions here.

[badger89]

Originally Posted by saillias

No, no you don't. There is no season in Flames history, that I can remember, where the GM didn't ensure we had a #7 D in place. Seems like you just want to believe in the tank so bad you'll use whatever evidence you can to make it fit

That was just wishful thinking, but those signings are so bad that you have to wonder. They did sign Hiller and Raymond though, so they're obviously not trying to tank.

[gunnner]

How bad does Buffalo look, good grief. It will be tough to catch them.

[BigRed]

Originally Posted by gunnner

How bad does Buffalo look, good grief. It will be tough to catch them.

Maybe that's a better conversation. Is Buffalo intentionally tanking? It would appear but consider all the factors -- Buffalo has never been high on the FA list of destinations, being the Edmonton of America, and even more so now. How could they improve even if they wanted to, if not through the draft?

[devo22]

Originally Posted by badger89

That was just wishful thinking, but those signings are so bad that you have to wonder. They did sign Hiller and Raymond though, so they're obviously not trying to tank.

I don't get why people think Diaz was a bad signing. He's a 7th defenseman who sits in the press box and plays 6th D minutes if there's an injury. I'd rather have a guy like him for that job than Wotherspoon.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by devo22

I don't get why people think Diaz was a bad signing. He's a 7th defenseman who sits in the press box and plays 6th D minutes if there's an injury. I'd rather have a guy like him for that job than Wotherspoon.

^ This, and it's not like we signed him to a multi-year deal either. That's why I don't get why we freak out over 1 year signings (Setoguchi/Diaz).

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

We all know how the standings work.

You keep saying that an earlier pick is better than a later pick, but you don't have any suggestions on how they drop a few games, or even if they should.

So what's your point? That the 3rd pick is better than the 4th pick? Thanks!

I could draw you a map and you'd probably still get lost.

People keep stressing culture. The great winning culture were building versus the horrible losing culture of other teams. Posters like to act like this culture is more important than a high pick. Other posters are stating that this is way overblown and that the superior talent is more valuable than the gained culture. How do we drop in the standings? Don't think I need to explain how to do that. Pretty simple. Am I suggesting we purposely drop? No. But let's not kid ourselves that somehow being a bit more competitive is more valuable than superior talent. Elite talent is way more difficult to find than culture. If that's still foggy for you Im sorry. Let's move on.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by Hackey

I could draw you a map and you'd probably still get lost.

People keep stressing culture. The great winning culture were building versus the horrible losing culture of other teams. Posters like to act like this culture is more important than a high pick. Other posters are stating that this is way overblown and that the superior talent is more valuable than the gained culture. How do we drop in the standings? Don't think I need to explain how to do that. Pretty simple. Am I suggesting we purposely drop? No. But let's not kid ourselves that somehow being a bit more competitive is more valuable than superior talent. Elite talent is way more difficult to find than culture. If that's still foggy for you Im sorry. Let's move on.

Elite talent does not always come from from the top 5, top 3 players in the draft. For the most part they do, but they aren't always the best players from the draft.

The only way we drop in the standings is to create a worse roster than Carolina and Buffalo. That is not happening, so to gain elite talent, you need to pretty much put up an AHL roster out there.

If our chances drop at picking in the top 3, oh well. This draft is pretty deep that I think the top 15 prospects are going to be great. So yes, our winning culture is more important to me than elite talent as of now because we are a team that looks like we won't have a top 3 pick for a while.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by BigRed

Maybe that's a better conversation. Is Buffalo intentionally tanking? It would appear but consider all the factors -- Buffalo has never been high on the FA list of destinations, being the Edmonton of America, and even more so now. How could they improve even if they wanted to, if not through the draft?

They tried building a team through free agency when Pegula bought the team and it backfired. So they traded away veterans for picks and prospects when it became evident they weren't going to win with the veterans anyway. Now they're building through the draft. Perfectly rational and legitimate strategy.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by questionmotives

I know it's the NFL, but I watched my Colts accidentally stumble to a 2 - 14 record and somehow land Andrew Luck a few years ago. What a different story it would have been had they finished 4 - 10 that season.

But wasn't Luck ruined by the losing culture of the Colts when he joined the team?

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

But wasn't Luck ruined by the losing culture of the Colts when he joined the team?

Indianapolis had a much different culture (winning) for a very long time and only a brief stint losing.

And the NFL is waaaaaaasyyyy different than the NHL

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

But wasn't Luck ruined by the losing culture of the Colts when he joined the team?

Because one bad season, where they didn't have a quarterback, equals losing culture

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Hackey

I could draw you a map and you'd probably still get lost.

People keep stressing culture. The great winning culture were building versus the horrible losing culture of other teams. Posters like to act like this culture is more important than a high pick. Other posters are stating that this is way overblown and that the superior talent is more valuable than the gained culture. How do we drop in the standings? Don't think I need to explain how to do that. Pretty simple. Am I suggesting we purposely drop? No. But let's not kid ourselves that somehow being a bit more competitive is more valuable than superior talent. Elite talent is way more difficult to find than culture. If that's still foggy for you Im sorry. Let's move on.

Ah yes, you move the goalposts because you don't have an answer, and you try to insult me. Solid post.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by Hackey

Elite talent is way more difficult to find than culture. If that's still foggy for you Im sorry.

It might not be foggy for him, he might just disagree with you. The above is your opinion, not fact.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

So how do you suggest they move a few spots lower in the standings?

Answered multiple times already: Nobody is suggesting the Flames do anything. And fans have no control over this stuff. It's a question of the likely outcomes of different factors outside our control.

It's like oil prices. The fact there's nothing any of us can do to change the price doesn't mean there's no point in discussing the possible outcomes of high versus low prices.

[GirlySports]

hope they kill Carolina tonight.

Losing for ping pong balls is stupid.