Flames goaltending is killing our chances at McDavid/Eichel/Hanifin: Discuss

[Bourque's Twin]

The thread title should read:

"Flames goaltending is helping our chances of making the the playoffs: Discuss"

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by badger89

It's also the Penguins, Black Hawks, and Avalanche way. Just sayin.

What exactly have the Avalanche done?

Florida, Islanders, Oilers,

Penguins actually won a lottery for Crosby that every team had a shot...Pens had a 6.2% chance of getting Sid people seem to forget that part

Shrewd management indeed

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by dino7c

what exactly have the avalanche done?

Florida, islanders, oilers,

penguins actually won a lottery for crosby that every team had a shot...pens had a 6.2% chance of getting sid were handed crosby in order to keep the penguins in pittsburgh and to pair crosby with mario, people seem to forget that part

shrewd management indeed

fyp

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by Robbob

Development is more important then a high pick. You can be just as successful not drafting first or second if you have a top notch development system. Red wings, kings, boston, anaheim, and chicago did what they did because how they developed so many players. you don't need to follow the oilers rebuild and continually draft first. Take the best player and successfully develop him and you will be fine. Flames have drafted two great players in the top ten and will likely get another. Having a culture the flames are developing can only help with the development.

You hit potential late picks like brodie, gaudreau, etc then you add significant depth the those high picks. More you develop the more assets you have, the more ammo you give the gm to improve the team.

Drafting and developing is important. Wow you just unlocked one of hockey's biggest mysteries. You sir are a hockey genius.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by IntenseFan

Above all we must avoid the "culture of loss" that has infected a few NHL teams, despite drafting high over the last few years. Chief culprit is the Oilers, although there are others (the Panthers have picked in the top 5 in 3 of the last 4 years too).

I'd much rather the Flames pick in the upper top 10 and have some pride and competitiveness than instill the culture of loss for a higher pick.

This whole idea is a load of BS. Almost all the elite teams in the league right now were terrible before they got good. You take two of the worst organizations in the league and try to use that as proof? People loved to use the Islanders as an example as well but I guess this doesn't fit as good anymore.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Hackey

This whole idea is a load of BS. Almost all the elite teams in the league right now were terrible before they got good. You take two of the worst organizations in the league and try to use that as proof? People loved to use the Islanders as an example as well but I guess this doesn't fit as good anymore.

It just goes to show that the only sure cure to a "culture of losing" is to start winning. That'll do it.

[GioforPM]

Some bad teams just stay bad.

Buffalo's been out of the playoffs 5 of the last 7 years (and lost in round one the other two).

Carolina's been out 7 of the last 8.

Atlanta/Winnipeg has only been in once out of 14 years.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

It just goes to show that the only sure cure to a "culture of losing" is to start winning. That'll do it.

I think the phobia of "culture of losing" is overexaggered. Honestly, its not really fair to keep on using Edmonton as a example of this, they aren't even remotely NHL relevent anymore.

[GioforPM]

Atlanta picked 1-2-1-2 over their first 4 years. Granted, they messed up getting Stefan, but Heatley and Kovalchuck were quality (before Heatly crashed his car and found the fridge). And Lehtonen turned out OK (of course goalies take time). Still got nowhere.

[DoubleF]

Originally Posted by Bourque's Twin

The thread title should read:

"Flames goaltending is helping our chances of making the the playoffs: Discuss"

Flames goaltending is killing our chances at McDavid/Eichel/Hanifin:

and then a pic of grumpy cat saying "GOOD".

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Some bad teams just stay bad.

Buffalo's been out of the playoffs 5 of the last 7 years (and lost in round one the other two).

... not for nothing but assuming we don't make the playoffs this year that describes Calgary as well.

[ForeverFlameFan]

(Forgive my post, my thoughts are all over the place).

I look at teams like Chicago and LA, teams who have won multiple cups in this new century. They both did it by quality drafting.

I truly think Sam Bennett is underrated and should have went 1st OA. But, that could just be me with my homer glasses on (and quite frankly, I don't care). Give it a few more years, and I think he becomes an even better center than what we thought he'd do. The reason why I talk about Sam is because he is our only top 5 pick in franchise history, and I don't see us getting another this year.

I want our team built by depth, the ability to roll out 4 lines. I think we are just one RW and one top end defensive prospect away from becoming a great team for years to come. Could honestly care less if we don't get McDavid.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Parallex

... not for nothing but assuming we don't make the playoffs this year that describes Calgary as well.

Yes, and I'd argue they've been pretty bad years combined with a few bad narrow PO bounces (eg versus Anaheim). But no building towards something.

[Sylvanfan]

We could always flip Hiller for a pick now....his value should be super awesome.

Fact is with or without McDavid, the Flames were going to need to fix their goaltending eventually. The Oilers tried it last year by trading for about 4 different guys. The Panthers tried it by trading for Luongo...the Islanders likely are better this year because they brought in Halak. Buffalo signed a whack of players. Winnipeg...well they never do anything, and Carolina also felt the excessive forwards and overpaid goaltender model has to work one of these years.

Really the Flames saw a team weakness and tried to address it, which is something other teams also did in the offseason. Difference is that the guy the Flames brought in, has actually helped fix the weakness that he was supposed to fill. It's still early though. But really that's the difference between teams. The really bad teams make moves to fix their weak points that don't work. Less bad teams pick guys who do address those issues.

I guess Burke and Treveling, screwed up in picking up a guy who is actually playing well.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Some bad teams just stay bad.

Buffalo's been out of the playoffs 5 of the last 7 years (and lost in round one the other two).

Carolina's been out 7 of the last 8.

Atlanta/Winnipeg has only been in once out of 14 years.

You forgot Florida. Once in the last 13 seasons have they made the playoffs.

[djsFlames]

I love this rotation of solid goaltenders we have going, but damn... if Hiller keeps up his play anywhere near where he's been until new years, we could extract a really good package for him. I would only do it for a high end defense prospect or RW prospect, though. Or a top 20 pick in this draft.

[Calgary4LIfe]

I think it is way too early to pass any judgements on the team right now. Just nice to see them winning and working hard. It is once again a very likeable and entertaining team to watch.

As for how successful they will become, who knows? I think you always need to be careful in how to manage a team. I would love a McDavid or Eichel on this team just for the sheer pleasure of watching a superstar for the next 10 or 15 years. However, they don't come with "Stanley Cup Guarantees", as many posters have already covered.

I think the most important thing the organization can do is walk the fine line between avoiding a purposeful tank, and making changes to artificially make the team more competitive. Ottawa is a good example I think of a team that looked like it was on the upswing, and then crashed back down. I do think a rebuild should take a few years to collect enough talent and depth.

You do not lose on purpose to collect that talent, however. The minute you do, is the minute you become not only a failure of an organization, but a demoralizing and embarrassing organization to play for. It is one thing to fail and rebuild - top management will avoid a total rebuild, great management will rebuild well - but it is another thing to embrace the losing culture and start focusing on the losses as the means to become great again. Terrible management embraces losing.

Flames need to keep walking the line. Having two solid goaltenders and a decent defensive unit on the ice will help keep the youth developing properly. Shaky goaltending can result in an entire team playing scared, and then demoralized as a goal goes in that shouldn't all too often. That is not an environment to try and develop anything but failure.

Don't be Edmonton and suck on purpose, for you will continue to suck even after you shouldn't suck any longer.

Don't be Ottawa and think you are further ahead than you really are, and make some moves in anticipation of that (i.e. Bobby Ryan - great support player, but they gave up quite a lot and I think it will haunt them), and didn't make other moves to thinking they could win with parts of their old core (i.e. Spezza, Alfredsson).

Just my opinion anyways.

I did group Montreal with Ottawa as a team that thought they were further ahead than what they really were, and I was wrong there. I don't think Montreal has the talent and depth to win a championship, but they are one of the best teams from the East, and look to be one of the best teams in the East for a number of years.

Finally, you don't need to add a first or second overall pick to your organization. This is a very deep draft with loads of talent. Flames will end up adding a couple of quality players wherever in the top 10 they end up drafting. There will also be no 'savior' for this organization to look to - they will do what good teams do and look to each other.

[Freeway]

Save percentages are wildly, unsustainably high.
A correction is coming.

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by Hackey

Drafting and developing is important. Wow you just unlocked one of hockey's biggest mysteries. You sir are a hockey genius.

Developing is more important. If you have a garbage system (look north) then in spite of drafting high it won't help the team much. Successful teams are good because of what they do outside the first round. I just don't' buy into the you have to have a first or second overall to win a cup.

IMO it is a fine balance to keep from getting a losing culture. It really is an abyss that can be difficult to get out of.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by Freeway

Save percentages are wildly, unsustainably high.
A correction is coming.

It's inevitable but hopefully the team will be playing better in general by that point...