Flames goaltending is killing our chances at McDavid/Eichel/Hanifin: Discuss

[HUSKER4FLAMES]

I believe the conditioning and training camp and the competitiveness for roster spots and playing times in the short term have had a very positive impact. Over the long term this will even it self out. I believe the same can be said for the goalie position. Great for short burst but can they maintain for 82 games. They wont be this good and the oilers and Colorado wont be that bad.

[saillias]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

So is McDavis the guy that gets 100 points but makes $9M, or is Hannifin that guy? Or is it Eichel that will get 80 points but make $2M?

I don't know. What are you trying to get at?

[Erick Estrada]

I much prefer the team playing competitively as they are right now but October play is largely worthless when trying to determine where a team will finish. When the early season excitement turns into a job and the winter grind begins is where the pretenders start falling off the pace.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by saillias

I don't know. What are you trying to get at?

your argument doesn't make any sense to me

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I much prefer the team playing competitively as they are right now but October play is largely worthless when trying to determine where a team will finish. When the early season excitement turns into a job and the winter grind begins is where the pretenders start falling off the pace.

Agreed here. I can't remember which coach it was, but I remember him saying the first 1/4 of the season, anything can happen, but the middle 2/4-3/4 of the season is where the grind of the NHL will hit you and seperate the man from the boys (Treliving mentions this often). Oddly though, the last quarter of the season you see a bunch of basement dwellers start to win again (nothing to lose) and contenders losing more often then not to a those basement dwellers.

[saillias]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

your argument doesn't make any sense to me

I think the generational type talents, like Crosby and Malkin, cost too much toward the salary cap relative to what they bring to a team.

[Singularity]

Our goalies may steal 5-8 games for us, but that is it. If we keep getting outshot by more talented teams, we are bound to have a losing record, not everyday do you play Chicago, get outshot by 40 and win a game

[thefoss1957]

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but, aren't fans in Edmonton hucking jerseys, with regularity, on the ice, in protest of their tanking/ineptitude? Consistent losing, for ANY reason, is NOT acceptable to truly loyal fan bases. For the Oil, it seems, that garnering high picks is NOT placating the faithful, they want to see POSITIVE results.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by nemanja2306

Of coursre, 1 > 0. But you can't say the Pens met expectations considering Crosby and Malkin are the two best players in the world.Pens should have traded Malkin IMO.

All I'm saying is that the Flames need to build a COMPLETE team. The Kings are a perfect example. Elite goaltender, elite dman and elite center. And a VERY GOOD supporting cast.

The lesson is winning cups is hard even when you have elite players. The Pens have been a contender for many years and brought home one cup. That works for me. I think Pens fans are very lucky - they've had some wildly entertaining hockey for a decade and a championship to boot - along with other playoff runs.

Sounds fun to me.

[Northendzone]

good grief, you realize we are not even 10 games into the season yet. i mean even the oilers are still not out of the playoff mix yet......

[WesternCanadaKing]

Just say no to the Edmonton model.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Northendzone

good grief, you realize we are not even 10 games into the season yet. i mean even the oilers are still not out of the playoff mix yet......

Even at this early stage of the season, a five-point gap and six teams is really difficult to make up for even a good NHL team. The Oilers are a terrible NHL team. Any hope they had of making the playoffs this season is effectively and realistically dead with this start.

[mile]

Originally Posted by saillias

I think the generational type talents, like Crosby and Malkin, cost too much toward the salary cap relative to what they bring to a team.

I understand what you're getting at, and add in the fact that if one of those two players get injured you don't have much depth anywhere else to compensate.

The teams like LA, Chicago, Boston who have Toews, Kane, Kopitar, Bergeron, Carter, Krejci as their top forwards and are players who are a level below the Crosby, Malkin, Stamkos, Tavares, MacKinnon types are still good enough to lead a team to the cup, and at the same time still allow their teams to surround hem with depth at other positions.

What does that depth include? Star defensemen (Chara, Doughty, Keith), good wingers, and a nice bottom six group of forwards. Not only so they have this depth, they can sustain it and make a run at the cup every year.

With Bennett, Monahan, and Backlund as centres the Flames are probably in a mold similar to those teams. McDavid/Eichel would be nice (and you definitely take them given the chance), but it's not the end of the world if you don't get one of them. I really think a star defenseman would complete this team going forward,, more so than another star centre.

[dino7c]

On a day the Flames sign a 24 year old emerging star of a D-man we are discussing this crap...sometimes I wonder

[nik-]

Originally Posted by dino7c

On a day the Flames sign a 24 year old emerging star of a D-man we are discussing this crap...sometimes I wonder

You wonder how people have the ability to discuss two different topics?

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Huntingwhale

#### Mcdavid. Hopefully whatever team wins the tank war gets to watch him turn into a bust and to reflect on that season they threw it all away for nothing.

Building a team with a never-quit attitude with a bunch of hardworking players that play for each other >>> Tanking a season and potentially (but probably not) drafting a possible superstar.

The Oilers aren't tanking, they're just terrible. The Hurricanes aren't tanking, they're just a bad team with their four top players either injured or coming off injuries. The Panthers aren't tanking, they're just bad, despite genuine efforts to improve the roster in the off-season.

I don't get why Flames fans have to feel morally superior to teams who are simply worse than we are. They're trying to win too. They just have worse goaltending and coaching. Nothing to get angry about.

Originally Posted by saillias

Let me clarify, I don't want 2 phenom types that the team has to pay 9 mil because they can put up 100 points if they play 82 games... Would rather have guys like Kopitar that are good for 70-80 pts but cost 2 million less.

So if the Flames do win the lottery, you would want them to trade down to the 6th or 7th pick so they take a guy who won't eat up too much of the salary cap when he hits his prime?

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by nik-

You wonder how people have the ability to discuss two different topics?

I just think one of the topics is ridiculous...ZOMG we are doing too well

what has happened to sports?

[t0rrent98]

Who plays to lose? we aren't the frigging Coiler's here.

[mile]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

The lesson is winning cups is hard even when you have elite players. The Pens have been a contender for many years and brought home one cup. That works for me. I think Pens fans are very lucky - they've had some wildly entertaining hockey for a decade and a championship to boot - along with other playoff runs.

Sounds fun to me.

I don't see the Penguins as a contender really, and think being a Pens fan you would be frustrated especially in the last few years. I see them as below St. Louis, Chicago, LA, Anaheim, Boston, and potentially San Jose as well. Outside of Crosby/Malkin(and those two have disappointed in last couple playoffs) the rest of their team looks bare, and don't have that big minute eating defenseman to complete their blue line either.

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

The Oilers aren't tanking, they're just terrible. The Hurricanes aren't tanking, they just a bad team with their four top players either injured or coming off injuries. The Panthers aren't taking, they're just bad, despite genuine efforts to improve the roster in the off-season.

I don't get why Flames fans have to feel morally superior to teams who are simply worse than we are. They're trying to win too. They just have worse goaltending and coaching. Nothing to get angry about.

Yeah, seems like a silly line of argument, especially when the Flames have the lowest payroll in the league.