[GDT] Flames @ Blue Jackets, 5 pm, SNW & SNF

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

Starting to get really annoyed with Hartley for sitting Gaudreau tonight. The BJs would've been a really good chance to get the monkey off his back. And now Jooris in his first game slides in to play on the second line? What?... I mean good for him, but I was convincing myself that the sheltered minutes was part of "easing" rookies into the lineup now. Then this?

Not a happy fan.

Johnny started on the second line too. Johnny isn't being sat to learn a lesson I don't think.


There's no double standard here. Harley's best chance at keeping his job or earning a next one is to develop players on a rebuilding team. Why would he have it out for Johnny

[Chill Cosby]

Wow, lots of doom and gloom over a not-yet-confirmed sitting of JG, even though he himself seems totally fine with it.

What's the need to play psychologist in these circumstances? Why must people suppose their imagination of the emotions and motivations of Hartley and Johnny? Especially considering they've both spoken on the subject.

Personally, I really enjoy the way Hartley mentors and grows young players, as well as veterans. Hartley is a teacher for all those willing to be taught. Gio, Backlund, Brodie, Russell, Colborne, Bouma, and Byron have all blossomed under his watch. Bouwmeester had his most impressive season as a Flame under Hartley. Stajan was painful to watch until Hartley came to town. Are all of these players amazing? No, but they are all greatly improved under Hartley.

Monahan was sheltered, sat here and there (if I remember correctly), and by the end of last season really took off. Baertschi is twice the player (in both overall ability and maturity) than he was even last season.

Hartley is an incredible teacher, I can't believe people question that. It might be the only thing he's incredible at... except for quotes... great quotes too. He does not treat everyone "fairly" or paint them with the same brush. He seems to evaluate players and hold them to a standard appropriate for their ability. So far, it's been working out great!

Sorry for the long post!

[Gary83]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

Starting to get really annoyed with Hartley for sitting Gaudreau tonight. The BJs would've been a really good chance to get the monkey off his back. And now Jooris in his first game slides in to play on the second line? What?... I mean good for him, but I was convincing myself that the sheltered minutes was part of "easing" rookies into the lineup now. Then this?

Not a happy fan.

Sit down happy fan.

You're in for a long season.

[Stay Golden]

Heard no Johnny tonight. Is the consensus that Jooris is playing instead?

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Not sure there is anything to get mad at there.

My problem with Francis's article is that it is about two or three weeks early. I think he could use a few more games and a few starts on home ice before it is decided that he will benefit from playing in Adirondack.

[sureLoss]

Scott Cruickshank @CruickshankCH
#Flames Hartley's advice for Jooris: "Just pretend you’re playing street hockey, and mom and dad are watching from the living room tonight."

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Ashasx
Gaudreau is 21, Baertschi 22. Gaudreau spent 3 years in a 0.41 NHLE league (the AHL is 0.44), Baertschi has now spent parts of 3 seasons in the AHL.

We can put that argument to rest, I think. We aren't rushing them.

IMO NHLE is a toy and the college equivalency hasn't much relationship to the levels of play.

[shogged]

Monahan hudler Jooris is going to be a sweet line to watch. Monahan and Jooris can both drive the net hard, and hudler is more than capable of getting them the puck. Hope we can see some production from them.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

My problem with Francis's article is that it is about two or three weeks early. I think he could use a few more games and a few starts on home ice before it is decided that he will benefit from playing in Adirondack.

Francis likes to think he's the prophet around here. Tries to be the first one to come out with a seemingly irrational opinion on something hoping to be proven right thereafter. Saying things after the fact or when they're warranted isn't good enough for Francis.

Also gets him more attention with the controversy. I choose not to read his drivel and be sucked in.

[Stay Golden]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Scott Cruickshank @CruickshankCH
#Flames Hartley's advice for Jooris: "Just pretend you’re playing street hockey, and mom and dad are watching from the living room tonight."

Just try slappers from 30ft away, no gravel.
Shoot from near impossible angles at the goalies side.
Car!

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Stay Golden

Heard no Johnny tonight. Is the consensus that Jooris is playing instead?

lol

[TheDebaser]

I totally agree that Johnny should be sent down pretty quickly. Give him until the end of the month to show improvement. Going down isn't a punishment, it's just a way to learn the game more quickly. If you've ever seen Johnny play outside of the nhl, you know he hasn't been playing the way that he's capable of playing. I want Johnny to figure out how to play his game at the nhl level, not just adjust his game until he can't be sent down.

Let me be clear here, Johnny has been fine. He's helped the team so far. But that's tangent to what I believe is the real issue facing the Flames. What decision is best for Johnny's development? Can the Flames afford to take a risk? As Treliving said, no one has ever had their development hurt by playing in the AHL. I'd say right now that there's an 85% chance that Gaudreau's development is moving along just fine and there's a 15% chance that his development is being hurt right now. I don't think it's the wise decision to toss the dice much more. Johnny needs to practice being the offensive dynamo we need him to be, and right now it looks like the nhl is not the best place for him to do that. The chicken little section of the fanbase might not be too happy about it but I think some AHL time would do Johnny some good.

[polak]

The main reason I'm disappointed is that this is the first variation in how we've used Johnny since the season started and it's to bench him.

Even if it's not being used as a punishment, I'm in awe that this is the course of action we decide to take to try and get him producing instead of trying literally anything else.

Maybe Johnny wouldn't be so "tired" (if that's the case) if he had linemates who could hold possesion like he needs in which case he wouldn't be playing 600 ft shifts.

I just really don't like how we haven't tried any other strategy with him.

What are we going to do next game after he sits? Put him back with Colborne? Of course we will. Ridiculous. I was actually excited to hear Jooris got called up cause I thought we might see him play with Gaudreau. Instead we get him potentially taking his place.

Not a fan of this decision at all.

[djsFlames]

Exactly what I'm saying too, polak.

If they had played him in even one game next to Monahan and Hudler (like they're doing here with Jooris), I wouldn't have an issue with this at all, as at least it tells me that they're different things to allow him to contribute offensively. I also thought Jooris might play with him. They worked together well in the preseason. But no, let's just bench Johnny and give Jooris top 6 minutes instead. Wait, who did we bring in to contribute offense again?

[combustiblefuel]

Didn't Monahan sit out a game or two last year? What's the difference?

A small rookie who has been pushed around by the bigger teams already. IF he sits its no big deal. Columbus is a big team. I don't mind him watching and learning.


The season is 82 games long. He has never played that many games a year. Throw in the rest of the life of a professional Athlete with constant travel, working out and practices.

I trust what Hartley is doing with the young guys . Outside of coaching Colorado Hartley made his career coaching young guns. This is why he consistently was promoted to highr teir league's. He was the only coach in Atlanta to ever get them to the playoffs. He has won a Championship in every league he has coached.

Relax its one game . He hasn't even been confirmed as a scratch. One rumor he might be and half the board explodes.

[dammage79]

While I agree Gaudreau could use a shot with another line, I don't see any reason why sitting him for one game should be seen as anything negatively either.

On the flip side though, Gaudreau hasn't really been a benefit to Colborne and Raymond either. Even against the Oilers Raymond-Colborne-Bouma look like the perfect NHL line.
I would really like to see more of that line consistently.

Can Gaudreau shine with a player like Backlund? Monahan seems the obvious choice as well. But A line of Hudler-Monahan-Gaudreau would be over powered on a regular basis I think.

The entire forward offense is a black hole right now. I'm not a stats guy but I am fairly confident that over 50% of the point CGY has scored is directly attribute to the D corps. Namely Gio and Brodie. Something needs to give on the forward ranks.

If Johnny sits tonight, fine. As others have said, it never hurt a rookie to watch a game from the crows nest once in a while. Gaudreau is still adjusting and I think has learned there's another gear he has to hit in the NHL, I feel he's really close to hitting it too.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by combustiblefuel

Didn't Monahan sit out a game or two last year?

no

[BigFlameDog]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Just become somebody chooses to support their subjective thoughts with objective facts does not mean they don't watch the game, and to assume otherwise just because you disagree is pure arrogance.

I didn't say he didn't watch the games...YOU said "My guess is Kent watches more hockey than you do."

I said "I'm not sure he does. I think he nerds over wayyy more stats than me and I think he pays way more attention to his spreadsheet but I don't know if he actually WATCHES more hockey than me."

Who's the arrogant one again?

[jg13]

I'm confident in our management and coaching staff that they have a plan for Johnny, obviously there is a reason he is not getting top line minutes and his minutes are being sheltered. He can't handle going up against the top teams defensive pairings YET.

They are being very cautious with Johnny and they have a plan for him, it's very evident. They are easing him into the NHL. It's hard for us fans to take it that way just because we know how exciting and impactful he can be. They're not concerned about Johnny scoring and putting up assists right now, they know he is more than capable of doing that once he adjusts to the speed of the game which I have to say i've seen a huge improvement already. The effort is there, the skill is there the consistency is NOT. This will come in time and with how smart & skilled Johnny is I expect it within the next 3-8 games or so.

Sitting out a game may be very beneficial, I believe a lot of players take it harsh and are very bitter about being a healthy scratch but if Gaudreau sits I believe he will be there taking every last minute in.

I don't believe the Flames have any plan on sending Gaudreau down right now and I don't think they should either. I think Hartley has done a great job with Gaudreau so far these are the necessary steps that need to be taken for the most part to become an every day player in this league, the only thing I would have done differently is probably sit him against the Blackhawks and have him play tonight against Columbus.

The kid will be fine

[bubbsy]

i don't understand the big deal in sitting the kid or even sending him down. i would imagine over 90% of prospects need time to season in the AHL, let alone sitting out and having a bird's eye view once in a while.

Some people like to point and laugh at the oilers for rushing their kids and giving them roster spots regardless of performance. I don't see baertchi's development suffering from the "earn it" approach (he looked great this camp and preseason), and i don't see gaudreau pouting about it either.

Gaudreau has looked extremely tentative to start the season, and seems a bit unsure of things outside of a shift or 2 per game. That's not a knock, that's a natural occurrence for players coming in from college/juniour and playing their first regular shift games in the NHL. getting him off the ice for a game, and having him watch from above seems like a reasonable approach.