[GDT] Flames @ Blue Jackets, 5 pm, SNW & SNF

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

...Why can't we handle our prospects/young players like LA, St. Louis, or Tampa?

It actually seems like this is exactly what the Flames are doing:

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

How did the Kings handle Toffoli, and Pearson? I recall lots of time in the AHL and healthy scratches a lot of the time in their NHL stints.

How did Detroit handle Tatar and Nyquist? Same thing. Lots of time in the AHL, and they sat in the press box if needed when up in the NHL as well.

How did Tampa handle Johnson, Palat, etc? Also with lots of AHL seasoning, and I think they had time in the press box early last year as well.

How did Columbus handle Johansson? Time in the AHL and the guy was a healthy scratch for his AHL team at times...

[Robo]

But we are treating our prospects like la, st.Louis, and tampa we are giving them time to develop into complete players and not just throwing them to the wolves

[saillias]

In my opinion they've been more than accommodating for Gaudreau. He gets to play with the biggest centre who leads the team in points. He made the team out of camp. He gets nice sheltered minutes. The zero is what it is though. You eventually gotta sit the guy if he's not producing, this isn't a seasoned vet who you know is good for his 25 goals like Cammalleri, this is a rookie and you don't know how he's going to turn out.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by BigFlameDog

I hope a hockey writer/blogger watches more hockey than me but...you know, I'm not sure he does. I think he nerds over wayyy more stats than me and I think he pays way more attention to his spreadsheet but I don't know if he actually WATCHES more hockey than me.

Edit: I would go so far as to say that a young, extremely talented and cerebral guy like Gaudreau should sit one in every 4-5 games to just watch from above. for his first half season. A guy like him would benefit huge from that view of the game...and it probably won't affect our Stanley Cup odds at all.

Just become somebody chooses to support their subjective thoughts with objective facts does not mean they don't watch the game, and to assume otherwise just because you disagree is pure arrogance.

[Rerun]

Am I cynic that when I hear Hartley say this kind of stuff I think that perhaps its not really what he is thinking?

“We will make our decisions after the warmup. It’s rare we go that way, but we have two players that are iffy. We just want to make sure,” head coach Bob Hartley said when asked about Gaudeau’s status for the game.

Hartley added: “When we’re dealing about young players, it’s always about doing what’s best for them, because in the long run what’s best for them is best for the organization. We have quite a few, and the beauty or the problem is that we’re starting to have depth. Last year, we were starting to have depth but our decisions were way easier than we have right now.”

I mean, after all, Hartley is in the last year of his contract that was signed by a different GM, and so far he hasn't been offered an extension.

Am I wrong in thinking that he may perhaps be giving some veteran players a lot more ice time than they deserve, based on their play, than rookies/prospects because he feels those choices give him the best chance to win games... thus improving his chances for a contract extension?

Or am I just being too cynical?

[MissTeeks]

Hey, how about that Josh Jooris. Gets to play in his first NHL game tonight. Good for him.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

It actually seems like this is exactly what the Flames are doing:

Gaudreau is 21, Baertschi 22. Gaudreau spent 3 years in a 0.41 NHLE league (the AHL is 0.44), Baertschi has now spent parts of 3 seasons in the AHL.

We can put that argument to rest, I think. We aren't rushing them.

[polak]

WOW.

So instead of trying Gaudreau with any other linemates even if it's for just a few shifts, we bench him? That is ridiculous. He hasn't even been playing poorly. Everytime he gets the puck he makes smart plays, the only reason his stat line looks average (not bad, just average) is that his linemates don't suit his game at all. They're not feeding him the puck, they're dumping and chasing.

I cannot believe that we'd bench him before trying any different combination of line mates. ABSOLUTELY FLOORED.

I don't know. I'm not liking Hartley forcing players to play a game they're not suited to play.

Wow.

[BChockeyJunkie]

Originally Posted by Dentoman

I understand your postion due to your connections to JG and appreciate your passion and information you have provided this forum with .... but for your own sanity, I would try and take a step back and avoid online discussions that deal directly with JG.

The connection is with the Flames, Yes i follow JG but I am a fan of the flames. I don't pay for NHL package, watch games til midnight and log into this site everyday to just care about JG. I care about the flames and the direction they go in with every player/prospect every game..... Just cause my post usually center around Gaudreau doesnt make me any different than 40% of the ppl on here.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Rerun

...Or am I just being too cynical?

Not necessarily. I don't doubt that Hartley is also somewhat distracted by his own uncertain employment future. However, I do think that it would be a mistake to assume that this is his sole motivation for deploying a veteran laden lineup. His behaviour in this regard does not seem at all out of line with what we see from a great number of very good NHL coaches in their handling of rookies.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by MissTeeks

Hey, how about that Josh Jooris. Gets to play in his first NHL game tonight. Good for him.

I am very excited for Jooris. Him being the first call up was well deserved.

[codynw]

Originally Posted by MissTeeks

Hey, how about that Josh Jooris. Gets to play in his first NHL game tonight. Good for him.

Get out of here with your positivity, that's not welcome here, apparently.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by BChockeyJunkie

The connection is with the Flames, Yes i follow JG but I am a fan of the flames. I don't pay for NHL package, watch games til midnight and log into this site everyday to just care about JG. I care about the flames and the direction they go in with every player/prospect every game..... Just cause my post usually center around Gaudreau doesnt make me any different than 40% of the ppl on here.

You can and should post on any subject here

[polak]

Originally Posted by saillias

In my opinion they've been more than accommodating for Gaudreau. He gets to play with the biggest centre who leads the team in points. He made the team out of camp. He gets nice sheltered minutes. The zero is what it is though. You eventually gotta sit the guy if he's not producing, this isn't a seasoned vet who you know is good for his 25 goals like Cammalleri, this is a rookie and you don't know how he's going to turn out.

And that's all they have tried!!!

You try utilizing him one way and you give up??? Maybe Gaudreau just doesn't click with Colborne? Maybe he needs to play "river hockey" like you'd see against playing against other teams top line players.

I can't believe that the first thing they try to do differently is bench him.

[saillias]

Originally Posted by Rerun

Am I cynic that when I hear Hartley say this kind of stuff I think that perhaps its not really what he is thinking?



I mean, after all, Hartley is in the last year of his contract that was signed by a different GM, and so far he hasn't been offered an extension.

Am I wrong in thinking that he may perhaps be giving some veteran players a lot more ice time than they deserve, based on their play, than rookies/prospects because he feels those choices give him the best chance to win games... thus improving his chances for a contract extension?

Or am I just being too cynical?

I really think so, we hardly have any vets and the ones we do are being treated on a level playing field with everyone else. Stajan? 4th line C. Hudler and Glencross, you want to cut back their ice time? That doesn't make a lot of sense. Wideman? Scratched for bad play. Seto, Jones? Scratched often. McGrattan? Scratched often. Raymond? Doesn't he lead the team in goals?

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by polak

WOW.

So instead of trying Gaudreau with any other linemates even if it's for just a few shifts, we bench him?

Why do we assume that Gaudreau is being punished? Do we know precisely WHY he has been scratched (If he has indeed been scratched)?

[MissTeeks]

Originally Posted by codynw

Get out of here with your positivity, that's not welcome here, apparently.

I do what I can.

[Kickazzflames]

I actually feel like Setoguchi might get another chance to suit up and try to get things rolling, but if Jooris plays well and Setoguchi can't find his offense we might see Seto waived at some point in November.

Gaudreau has looked pretty good but has yet to find that level he needs to get to start producing and than once he finds that he is going to need consistency. The guy is very very early into his NHL career and Hartley knows this.

We see that he is doing a bunch of things right but he is not where we and he want him to be. If taking a game or two off here and there help him get a better understanding of the game from the press box than I am all for it. Watching the flames systems that he was taught in game action from high up could do wonders for him. He can also get a better understanding of his team mates tendencies to help him position himself and find teammates with his passes better.

Watching the game it looks messy when Raymond-Colborne-Gaudreau enter the zone. Colborne and Gaudreau seem to try to get to the same areas of the ice and it kills the cycle quite quickly. Raymond enters with speed but teammates don't know where they should be when he wants to pass it.

All of our lines seem to be having issues like this but we want to see Gaudreau find that next level and he has yet to produce, so him sitting could benefit him.

It's fun seeing how involved CP is with our rookies lately but if were going to ride the emotional rollercoaster that comes with every hockey decision its going to burn a lot of you out this season haha.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Gaudreau is 21, Baertschi 22. Gaudreau spent 3 years in a 0.41 NHLE league (the AHL is 0.44), Baertschi has now spent parts of 3 seasons in the AHL.

We can put that argument to rest, I think. We aren't rushing them.

I also don't think that the Flames are stagnating their development in any way either. Time will tell, but it is fairly shortsighted to assume that the longer road to the NHL is a detriment for these players.

[BChockeyJunkie]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

You can and should post on any subject here

Well unlike other on this site, I try not to post on things that im not educated nor passionate about. I don't post to just see myself post, I'm still learning the dynamic of CP and of the team.