Gaudreau Progress / Development

[TjRhythmic]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Considering that Backlund is regularly deployed against the top forwards in the NHL, I seriously doubt that this would be the case.

Both points have been mentioned already, but it seems likely to me that Gaudreau's quiet NHL start is a product of the following: first, a big adjustment to get his timing and grasp of space at the highest level of hockey in the world. Second, a near-equally big adjustment starting his rookie season with so many games on the road.

I don't really think there are any "Gaudreau troubles" to speak of at this point. He was probably always going to have an offensively underwhelming first 20 games or so. But I really don't think that he will get sent down; at least not before US thanksgiving.

Adding a third, he's not used to playing this much hockey. NCAA they played 2 games a week. And travel is a lot easier in college. The NHL is pretty much go go go from opening night to final game.

He is going to be fine.

He's still figuring things out both on the ice and off it. Routine being the biggest one. His pregame routine, off day routine... how to handle recovery better. And being on the road for the first 3 weeks of the season, and not really knowing where he is going to be playing till the night before the first game is tough for anyone to get into a solid routine

[CsInMyBlood]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Considering that Backlund is regularly deployed against the top forwards in the NHL, I seriously doubt that this would be the case.

Both points have been mentioned already, but it seems likely to me that Gaudreau's quiet NHL start is a product of the following: first, a big adjustment to get his timing and grasp of space at the highest level of hockey in the world. Second, a near-equally big adjustment starting his rookie season with so many games on the road.

I don't really think there are any "Gaudreau troubles" to speak of at this point. He was probably always going to have an offensively underwhelming first 20 games or so. But I really don't think that he will get sent down; at least not before US thanksgiving.

Gaudreau has shown he isn't lost when he doesn't have the puck, he has shown he is defensively responsible thus far.

I do however understand what you are saying and I also agree that there aren't any "Gaudreau troubles" at this point. His game looks fine.

My point is, giving Johnny PP time with Backlund and Byron could be a huge success. It is painfully obvious that Colborne and Raymond do not compliment his game. Trade Glencross with Johnny for a couple of shifts. See what happens. Byron and Backlund are strong enough defensively already, its not like Glencross is some defensive wizard that holds that line together.

Glencross-Colborne-Raymond might turn out to be a good line in itself.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Bingo. The points will come. Also. Hartley has a history of starting prospects in limited roles and moving them up over time. Gaudreau will get his power play minutes in time.

Hartley has a history of giving highly skilled prospects limited roles with unsuitable line-mates and then sending them down to the minors.

The highly skilled prospects that Hartley has has in his 3 years have been Monahan, Baertschi and Gaudreau.

[bubbsy]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Hartley has a history of giving highly skilled prospects limited roles with unsuitable line-mates and then sending them down to the minors.

The highly skilled prospects that Hartley has has in his 3 years have been Monahan, Baertschi and Gaudreau.

i think brodie should also be added to the list as far as youngin's on the roster under hartley's tenure.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Hartley has a history of giving highly skilled prospects limited roles with unsuitable line-mates and then sending them down to the minors...

Do tell.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by CsInMyBlood

...My point is, giving Johnny PP time with Backlund and Byron could be a huge success. It is painfully obvious that Colborne and Raymond do not compliment his game. Trade Glencross with Johnny for a couple of shifts. See what happens. Byron and Backlund are strong enough defensively already, its not like Glencross is some defensive wizard that holds that line together.

Glencross-Colborne-Raymond might turn out to be a good line in itself.

I think you are probably right, but by the same token, there is plenty of time to watch all of this play out. I get the desire to want to see Gaudreau succeeding in the short term, but there really isn't any urgency to shift his line mates or to increase his pp time.

[IliketoPuck]

Originally Posted by FBI

Yes I know it's only been 4 games..

He is looking timid and tentative, what do you think might help improve his play?

Firstly I'm not sure why Hartley isn't giving him any PP time.. Gaudreau thrives on this so if the kid is going to be up, it seems like a waste and probably takes his confidence down a notch.

Second, why the hell are we using the dump and chase method when Gaudreau is on the ice, it hardly ever works and that is not his game whatsoever. He needs to carry the puck and make some nice plays..

I'm a little confused on what is going on here. Does he need to go down to Addy to get some confidence back? He has been hit a few times, is he being intimidated out there?

I am super excited about this kid but bummed about how things have been going so far. Suggestions for him to improve?

http://flamesnation.ca/2014/10/15/wh...eau-stay-or-go

Interesting coincidences today. Ryan is that you?

Far too small of a sample size to determine one way or the other. JG has looked good to me defensively, he just hasn't put up points yet. Points will come, he's been getting plenty of chances.

Too early in the season for this thread to be popping up, especially with 6 of the first 7 games on the road, where match ups favour the home team.

Although kudos, it did spark 3 pages of discussion.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by CsInMyBlood

Gaudreau has shown he isn't lost when he doesn't have the puck, he has shown he is defensively responsible thus far.

I do however understand what you are saying and I also agree that there aren't any "Gaudreau troubles" at this point. His game looks fine.

My point is, giving Johnny PP time with Backlund and Byron could be a huge success. It is painfully obvious that Colborne and Raymond do not compliment his game. Trade Glencross with Johnny for a couple of shifts. See what happens. Byron and Backlund are strong enough defensively already, its not like Glencross is some defensive wizard that holds that line together.

Glencross-Colborne-Raymond might turn out to be a good line in itself.

Maybe the Coach doesn't want Johnny focusing on offense and goals right now. Especially if he wants his players to play certain way.. Just saying, I think the focus right now is on a total team commitment and once they have that I think certain players will be put into more key situations. No reason to put more pressure on Johnny's shoulders especially this season.

[darthma]

Originally Posted by CsInMyBlood

Gaudreau has shown he isn't lost when he doesn't have the puck, he has shown he is defensively responsible thus far.

I do however understand what you are saying and I also agree that there aren't any "Gaudreau troubles" at this point. His game looks fine.

My point is, giving Johnny PP time with Backlund and Byron could be a huge success. It is painfully obvious that Colborne and Raymond do not compliment his game. Trade Glencross with Johnny for a couple of shifts. See what happens. Byron and Backlund are strong enough defensively already, its not like Glencross is some defensive wizard that holds that line together.

Glencross-Colborne-Raymond might turn out to be a good line in itself.

You have seen the several times he's thrown passes up the middle in the defensive zone to... the other team, right? I'm not doom and glooming here, but fans need to take off the rose-coloured glasses and try to evaluate JG as is. Would you put JG on the PK? Probably not. Why? He's too small and easy to take off the puck. Would you put JG on in the last minute of a game where you're up a goal? Again, probably not. Would you put him on if you're down a goal? Probably yes.

Yes, I'm disappointed that JG isn't getting more ice-time or being set up 'to win', but he's been given a fair shake. Sure, his linemates have been so-so, but the entire Flames roster is so-so.

[boddygill]

It's game 4 and he's had the flu as well as adjusting to the day to day of the NHL, he's skating lots, but he's still finding where to go, and he's getting stick checked much faster than he's used to in NCAA.

[FBI]

Renaming the thread since "troubles" is probably the wrong word.
Someone said his pp average ice time has been decent but that's only because he got a lot of it the first 2 games. The last 2 was something like 0:00 and 0:37.

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by darthma

You have seen the several times he's thrown passes up the middle in the defensive zone to... the other team, right? I'm not doom and glooming here, but fans need to take off the rose-coloured glasses and try to evaluate JG as is. Would you put JG on the PK? Probably not. Why? He's too small and easy to take off the puck. Would you put JG on in the last minute of a game where you're up a goal? Again, probably not. Would you put him on if you're down a goal? Probably yes.

Yes, I'm disappointed that JG isn't getting more ice-time or being set up 'to win', but he's been given a fair shake. Sure, his linemates have been so-so, but the entire Flames roster is so-so.

Not so sure about that... not only is he stuck playing with line mates that he has zero chemistry with, Hartley has him playing right wing. When was the last time JG played right wing on a regular basis?

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by FBI

Renaming the thread since "troubles" is probably the wrong word.
Someone said his pp average ice time has been decent but that's only because he got a lot of it the first 2 games. The last 2 was something like 0:00 and 0:37.

0:37 last game. The Flames had three powerplays.
2:06 in St. Louis. The Flames had six powerplays.

He was #5 among forwards in game three, and #9 in Nashville in powerplay time. So clearly his 5-on-4 ice time was reduced last night from the previous three games, but I wouldn't say that there is anything to suggest a pattern of reduction. Some of this might also just be in-game situations, or things that the coaches are seeing in the moment.

[jar_e]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

The NCAA isn't the NHL.
The WJHC isn't the NHL.
The WHC isn't the NHL.
An NHL rookie camp isn't the NHL.
The NHL pre-season isn't the NHL.

The NHL is a big jump and transition from every other league in the world. People who expected Gaudreau to come into the NHL and play right away like he did in other leagues were kidding themselves. It will take time to learn and adjust.

This times a million. People need to have realistic, extended expectations for Gaudreau. This will take time.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Rerun

Not so sure about that... not only is he stuck playing with line mates that he has zero chemistry with, Hartley has him playing right wing. When was the last time JG played right wing on a regular basis?

Talk about being set up to fail.

So, what is the Flames' end game here? Do you think Hartley and co. want to see Gaudreau fail? And what is "fair" in the world of an NHL team anyways?

[Anduril]

Originally Posted by CsInMyBlood

Glencross-Colborne-Raymond might turn out to be a good line in itself.

Unless Glencross can play RW, Raymond is staying on the left. Him moving back there was a huge reason for his performance against the Oilers.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by CsInMyBlood

My point is, giving Johnny PP time with Backlund and Byron could be a huge success. It is painfully obvious that Colborne and Raymond do not compliment his game.

Personally I'd put Gaudreau with Monahan and Colborne (at RW). I think those three guys would be gangbusters together.

Combine the off the chart hockey IQ's on Gaudreau and Monahan with Colborne's big frame along the boards and in front of the net where he can draw in defenders and create more open ice where Monahan and Gaudreau make hay.

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

So, what is the Flames' end game here? Do you think Hartley and co. want to see Gaudreau fail? And what is "fair" in the world of an NHL team anyways?

No I don't think they want to see him fail... I just don't think they are doing all they can to see him succeed.

Part of this I blame on Hartley and his stubborness with regards to shuffling his lines mid game. Once a line is set before the game it pretty well stays that way till the end of the game.... whether its working or not.

I'm also not a big fan of making a rookie with 2 games under his belt play a position that's not his normal position. No wonder he's playing tenatively.
If you have to play someone out of position, play a veteran, not a 2 game rookie. Tell Setoguchi to play left wing, not Gaudreau.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Rerun

No I don't think they want to see him fail... I just don't think they are doing all they can to see him succeed...

It's a marathon, not a sprint. "Success" for Johnny Gaudreau at this point—the very start of his professional playing career—honestly probably has nothing to do with his offensive impact or overall production. Right now, I suspect that the coaches are most concerned with how he is pacing himself through games, and through what is quite literally his first ever extended road trip through more than one time zone. The reason people get a little frustrated with these sorts of discussions is because there really are no answers right now beyond "wait and see." I get the sense that these sorts of questions and concerns being raised now are just not that relevant to what's going on in the bigger picture of Gaudreau's long-term development.

Originally Posted by Rerun

I'm also not a big fan of making a rookie with 2 games under his belt play a position that's not his normal position. No wonder he's playing tenatively.
If you have to play someone out of position, play a veteran, not a 2 game rookie. Tell Setoguchi to play left wing, not Gaudreau.

Yeah, maybe. Of course, I wouldn't really know having never had to coach elite level athletes through an exceptionally demanding schedule of competition. Maybe its a bad idea, maybe it isn't. Maybe Hartley has his reasons, maybe he doesn't.

[DoubleF]

Originally Posted by Rerun

Part of this I blame on Hartley and his stubborness with regards to shuffling his lines mid game. Once a line is set before the game it pretty well stays that way till the end of the game.... whether its working or not.

I always assumed this was for video review later on?