No Trinity graduates in this Norway wilderness company................

[Regular_John]

Originally Posted by saillias

Yeah this guy came off real unprofessional and petty, what kind of CEO starts trading jabs via e-mail with a job applicant he just rejected, and then his co-CEO joins in? They just wanted to ridicule this girl for going to a Christian school

Yeah it comes across as a bush operation when they choose to pick a fight like this. No matter how much of a moral stand they may think they are taking, it's not the hill to die on.

There's simply no way "we attacked a job applicant over their school's value system" that is ever going to end with them looking like the good guys. They're always going to be the jerks who lashed out at a potential employee instead of simply saying "thanks for your application"

[photon]

Originally Posted by jaydorn

Yeah it comes across as a bush operation

Well it is what they do..

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

I find it interesting that a few of you would completely reject a candidate outright based on going to Trinity Western.

Why is that exactly?
Does the school really have that bad of an acedemic record?
Is it simply because it's a "Christian" school?

If they have an accredited biology program, does that not mean it stands up to provincial standards, and thus the religious aspect of the school should be irrelevant?

Trinity Western mandates that every faculty member sign a "Statement of Faith" that effectively prohibits academic freedom at the institution. This is fundamentally at odds with the free discourse and exchange of ideas that should be encouraged at any place of higher learning. Accordingly, I don't take TWU (and its graduates, by extension) seriously.

According to a CAUT report, because TWU—which describes itself as “a faith-based institution, one inspired by Christ’s life and guided by his teachings”—submits its faculty to what CAUT calls a “faith test,” it is violating academic freedom.

The controversial faith test consists of a “Statement of Faith” that professors are required to sign annually and that outlines the “philosophical framework to which all faculty, staff and administration are committed without reservation.” It includes a list of convictions to which professors must assert to subscribe, including belief in the bible, in one infinitely perfect god, that Jesus Christ was a real man, and in “the bodily resurrection of the dead; of the believer to everlasting blessedness and joy with the Lord, of the unbeliever to judgment and everlasting conscious punishment.”

To CAUT, the Statement of Faith clearly demonstrates that TWU does not accept the standard definition of academic freedom. They consider universities to have violated academic freedom if they “seek to ensure an ideologically or religiously homogeneous academic staff,” which clearly includes TWU.

[...]

The academic calendar at TWU goes so far as to reject a definition of academic freedom that denies an established perspective: “Trinity Western University rejects as incompatible with human nature and relevational theism a definition of academic freedom which arbitrarily and exclusively requires pluralism without commitment, denies the existence of any fixed points of reference, maximizes the quest for truth to the extent of assuming it is never knowable, and implies an absolute freedom from moral and religious responsibility to its community.” In other words, the university rejects relativism, which many academics would say is incompatible with the primary role of a university.

[...]

The core issue, according to Turk, is not that Christian beliefs are part of the mission of the university, but that those beliefs appear to come before everything else. The report points to TWU’s own claims of being a “disciple-making academic community” and “an arm of the Church” where “all teaching, learning, thinking, and scholarship take place under the direction of the Bible, the wholly authoritative and truthful Word of God.”

“No university should be the arm of any institution,” Turk said. “A university shouldn’t be the arm of the Church or the arm of state or the arm of a special interest group. The very nature of a university should not be to make disciples.”

http://www.macleans.ca/education/uni...-universities/

[octothorp]

Originally Posted by Thor

Asking for a photo on an application is common in Nordic countries, in Iceland everyone attaches photos to resumes. Its to ensure the ugly people don't get work.

Which thus decreases their marriage prospects, and effectively removes them from the gene pool, thus producing an increasingly attractive population? Damn you and your sexy eugenics!

[CaptainYooh]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

These people are just as bad as her.

They're going to get completely nailed by the Human Rights Commission and rightfully so....

Yep. As annoying and unpleasant some religious proselytizers are, the loud in your face atheists are much much worse.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Thor

Asking for a photo on an application is common in Nordic countries, in Iceland everyone attaches photos to resumes. Its to ensure the ugly people don't get work.

My sister in law is from Japan and she said the same thing is common there.

[Handsome B. Wonderful]

I would have told her to apply again once she has a real education.

[Flabbibulin]

Originally Posted by Handsome B. Wonderful

I would have told her to apply again once she has a real education.

Trinity Western received an 'A' from the Globe and Mail in the category of "reputation with employers". A large number of Canadian Universities, including the U of C with a B, received a lower grade. It also received an 'A' in the category of Career Preparation. Sounds like a real education to me.

The issue here is the University has a ridiculous viewpoint with regards to premarital sex and same sex relationships. That said, there are religious nuts at every university in Canada that have viewpoints similar to this, while I am sure there are plenty of students at Trinity that don't agree at all with this particular platform... I know this for sure as a close friend of mine slept around plenty while at Trinity.

[Oling_Roachinen]

I work for a company that, apparently, hires people from all walks of life. All sorts of religion (or lack of), the entire political spectrum, almost certainly people on both sides of every controversial debate and heritages from around the globe. It doesn't matter though because they are all professionals. I wouldn't want to work for a company that considered anything but whether the candidate was the most qualified for the job in their criteria for potential employees.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Flabbibulin

Trinity Western received an 'A' from the Globe and Mail in the category of "reputation with employers". A large number of Canadian Universities, including the U of C with a B, received a lower grade. It also received an 'A' in the category of Career Preparation. Sounds like a real education to me.

Good point

The issue here is the University has a ridiculous viewpoint with regards to premarital sex and same sex relationships. That said, there are religious nuts at every university in Canada that have viewpoints similar to this, while I am sure there are plenty of students at Trinity that don't agree at all with this particular platform... I know this for sure as a close friend of mine slept around plenty while at Trinity.

The difference between Trinity and "every university in Canada" is that this type of crazy is endorsed by Trinity.


Your last point.......just speaks to the everyday hypocrisy of religion

[Chill Cosby]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Good point




The difference between Trinity and "every university in Canada" is that this type of crazy is endorsed by Trinity.


Your last point.......just speaks to the everyday hypocrisy of religion

Nailed it.

Further,
The problem isn't that the person is religious, nor that they attended a religious institution, but rather that they attended an institution that promotes itself on the basis of discrimination (of both certain Christians and non-Christians), and accepts only those that agree to their interpretation of the Bible, not any other.

This is why I would never hire someone from TWU. Not from a prejudice viewpoint of "they're from there, so they must think like that" but rather "they attended that institution, so they AGREED to that."

Do people go there that don't agree with the community covenant? Of course. But everyone who goes there (if only in my personal opinion as the person in charge of hiring) is either in agreement with the discrimination, or is in disagreement but lies to the institution for their own personal gain (education).

Why would I want someone in my company who was either in agreement with the ethically unsound provisions of their education, or abused the covenant which they were to adhere to in order to obtain their education?

Why would I want someone who thinks discrimination is acceptable?
Why would I want a liar?

[corporatejay]

How are they different than Brigham Young? Would not hire
someone from byu?

[CaptainYooh]

Originally Posted by Chill Cosby

...
Why would I want someone who thinks discrimination is acceptable?
Why would I want a liar?

Oh, the self-righteousness...

1. Coran not just allows, but encourages Muslims to deceive non-Muslims if it will further the goals of spreading Islam.Don't hire Muslims. They should have known better.
2. Torah says that the daughter of a priest who completed the second stage of marriage (i.e. has sex with her husband) commits adultery and must be punished by melting lead poured down her throat. Don't hire any Jews. They should have known better.
3. Hinduism approves of the cast system of the society. Don't hire any Hindus...

Shall the list be continued? People's beliefs are only relevant in hiring decisions when these beliefs have the power to result in unlawful behaviour on the job.

[Chill Cosby]

Originally Posted by CaptainYooh

Oh, the self-righteousness...

1. Coran not just allows, but encourages Muslims to deceive non-Muslims if it will further the goals of spreading Islam.Don't hire Muslims. They should have known better.
2. Torah says that the daughter of a priest who completed the second stage of marriage (i.e. has sex with her husband) commits adultery and must be punished by melting lead poured down her throat. Don't hire any Jews. They should have known better.
3. Hinduism approves of the cast system of the society. Don't hire any Hindus...

Shall the list be continued? People's beliefs are only relevant in hiring decisions when these beliefs have the power to result in unlawful behaviour on the job.

There is a very distinct difference between beliefs (or in this case the words of a holy-book) and using those beliefs (or words) to discriminate against others.

I would never not-hire someone because of their belief. Whether they be Christian, Hindu, Jewish, etc. I would and will always hire someone based on their ethics. Discriminating against homosexuals or being complacent in their discrimination? That's bad ethics.

Your list isn't relevant. Would I hire a Jewish person? Absolutely. Would I hire a Jewish person who poured melting lead down his wife's throat? No, no I would not.

But that's just crazy self-righteous me!

[CaptainYooh]

Your assumptions were made on the premise of someone attending a faith-based institution, which is absolutely self-righteous, presumptuous and, I am almost sure of it, illegal. By your logic, anyone attending a Catholic school should not be hired. Don't you see that?

[Chill Cosby]

Originally Posted by CaptainYooh

Your assumptions were made on the premise of someone attending a faith-based institution, which is absolutely self-righteous, presumptuous and, I am almost sure of it, illegal. By your logic, anyone attending a Catholic school should not be hired. Don't you see that?

No, my assumptions are based on the fact that every TWU student has to sign a covenant that explicitly discriminates people under penalty of expulsion. By signing it they are agreeing to it or agreeing to be complacent in it.

I have no problem with faith-based institutions in general, I have a problem with TWU.

What exactly are YOU talking about?

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Chill Cosby

No, my assumptions are based on the fact that every TWU student has to sign a covenant that explicitly discriminates people under penalty of expulsion. By signing it they are agreeing to it or agreeing to be complacent in it.

I have no problem with faith-based institutions in general, I have a problem with TWU.

What exactly are YOU talking about?

Sorry, how is a TWU student any different than say a Catholic in this regard?

The Catholic church and its leader also discriminates against gay marriage. And surely eating a man's flesh every week is a more explicit agreement with the rules of Catholicism than signing a piece of paper.

[CaptainYooh]

Originally Posted by Chill Cosby

...

What exactly are YOU talking about?

I am talking about the legality and morality of your position, because I view it as both illegal and immoral.

As an employer, you have no idea about how the college this woman had attended would be negatively affecting her performance on the job or work ethics. None. And nevertheless, you are justifying the negative hiring decision, because you don't like the Christian belief covenant she had to sign prior to her college admission? This presumption and decision can and should be legitimately challenged in courts or HR tribunal.

Also, as hiring person, you have no idea about the real beliefs of the prospective candidates - you only know what they tell you in most cases. And even then you have the right ask about what's relevant for the job description only. Someone against abortions for ANY reason should not be hired to work at an abortion clinic, for example.

No matter how you put it, your position regarding this woman's background is rooted in YOUR personal opinions and beliefs about her background, which makes it immoral.

P.S. Just so that we are clear: This is not about the value of Christian beliefs or religious institutions. Personally, I do not agree with organized religion in any of its forms, other than spirituality and personal improvement, which any faith can help a person to achieve. I am just discussing the hiring decision of a prospective employer.

[Burninator]

Originally Posted by Chill Cosby

No, my assumptions are based on the fact that every TWU student has to sign a covenant that explicitly discriminates people under penalty of expulsion. By signing it they are agreeing to it or agreeing to be complacent in it.

People can change their minds...

[FlamesAddiction]

I didn't see anything in her resume that suggested that she would promote her religious moral beliefs.

What it comes down to is can an employer refuse to employ someone because they don't like the stereotype.... I work with a couple of very religious people and neither one ever talks about it at work.

It's like saying that you won't hire an environmentalist, or a liberal, or a conservative, or an atheist, and so on....