[Rumour] Sven Baertschi's dad talks to Swiss newspaper about wanting out

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by troutman

Not concerning to me - don't want to be here? Can't see how coach will make you a better player? Good riddance.

Of course if depends on whether you think the article is genuine or not, I think it should be concerning if a young player, who was previously beloved by fans, no longer wants to be on rebuilding team. Why would you want to be giving up assets for nothing. That is a serious problem.

The Islanders treatment of Nino sure is making them look stupid, no? The Coyotes with Turris? You shouldn't want to be in these situations. It's not as simple as "good riddance". It's terrible asset management.

Though the article does not give Sven's thoughts.

[shogged]

[driveway]

If you looked at drafting a player as 'giving up' an asset, which is an ass-backwards way to look at drafting, then in order to get back what we gave up, Sven would need to reach the level of someone like Jordan Staal (CAR #8 --> PIT in 2012), Semyon Varlamov (COL #11 --> WASH, 2012), Cory Schneider (NJD #9 --> VAN, 2013), or Bobby Ryan (OTT #10 --> ANA, 2014).

That is the complete list of picks numbers 13 and higher that have been traded since Baertschi was drafted.

[timbit]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

The Flames gave Baertschi a real number. Hartley will not be around much longer.

If Burke/Trevling thought that Hartley was going to out-last Baertschi as a Flame they would have had him play 20 games and get his 10 pts or so as he is clearly capable and then trade him for a top young D-man. I don't think there would be a lot of argument that Baertschi would produce... maybe significantly on a line with Monahan or Backlund.

Baertschi just based on his NHL games has as good a NHL record as fellow 22-year old Tyler Toffoli for instance.

Right now the other teams can clearly see that Baertschi is not fitting in with the Flames... His trade value will be very low.

Laughable.

No he is not clearly capable...or he would be in Calgary.

Secondly, are you saying that Toffoli, who played significant minutes on the Stanley Cup champions is a comparable to Sven, at this point?

Toffoli developed slowly but surely in his time in Manchester and has turned into a very productive and reliable NHL forward. He has CLEARLY proved that on a far deeper and better team.

Sven can do the same. A big part of that is on his shoulders. He needs to suck it up and force the team's hand....just like Toffoli did.

Some would argue that Sven was NOT one of the top 3 F in Abbotsford last season.

Toffoli, a second round pick, was easily the best F in Manchester the previous 2 seasons. He bided his time, worked his ass off, improved, got called up... and has a cup ring.

[codynw]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Baertschi just based on his NHL games has as good a NHL record as fellow 22-year old Tyler Toffoli for instance.

You say a lot of dumb things, but this might be one of the worst.

Spoiler!

[Lanny_McDonald]

^^^^ Prepare for a barrage of advanced stats to prove otherwise.

[codynw]

And by advanced, you mean ridiculous. Right?

[Rerun]

Because of those statements, I think the Flames should either trade Sven Baertschi's dad or waive him to the minors. The guy really has a poor attitude and doesn't deserve to be on the team.

[Locke]

In reality, parents should really STFU and stay the hell out of it unless they have an official capacity.

It becomes like the 'telephone' game, its hearsay and the message becomes distorted by the time it reaches the end.

What Treliving/Hartley say goes to the agent then to Sven then to parents then to a tabloid and eventually it becomes reported that Sven is hunting aliens on Neptune.

He'll play a bit in Adirondack and then he'll be back. My bet is that his name is first or second on the callup list.

I always get the impression that if management gives a rookie a vet's spot then they're going to move that vet but they're going to want something for it, and if they want to do that then that vet has to be given a chance to show their stuff.

Cyclical asset management.

[Stay Golden]

Just a parent being a parent. Look at all the parents out there that are convinced their kids are going to make the NHL even though no Jr team is scouting them.
This is just at a more visible level but Svens Dad just being a proud Dad.
The thing is Svens Dad should realize his son is not going to be a physical forward so he is not going to be effective in a checking role or on the 4th line. Sven has to be a 2nd line player if he is going to make it in the NHL and is he really a better everygame player than any of our top 3 at his position.
JMO I don't think he is.

[devo22]

to quote myself from the camp cuts thread:

Originally Posted by devo22

the translations are correct and the truth is that those quotes from Svens father are pretty damning. I'd translate them like this:

"Hartley loves physically strong players, but Sven is a finesse player. Last year they wanted him to play differently, he wasn't allowed to play to his strengths anymore and at some point he didn't know what to do on the ice anymore. I visited Sven last year and the mental stress was huge. Hartley destroyed him as if Sven was solely to blame for the losses. The two of them will probably never be friends. I don't know why the Flames even keep Sven any longer. A trade would probably be the best thing, and that's what I hope for now. With Calgary, it's probably over."

Be careful though, "Blick" is a horrible tabloid afaik ... similar to "Bild" in Germany, for example. Those kind of newspapers love to take quotes out of context in order to make headlines.

I've also found this Blick article from a couple of days ago:

http://www.blick.ch/sport/eishockey/...id3180177.html

it basically says that Gaudreau has overtaken Sven as a top prospect and that's also due to the fact that Gaudreau is American and as a result, Burke basically did and still does everything to get Gaudreau on the team instead of Sven. Which is basically BS, so take Blick with a grain of salt is all I'm saying. Svens fathers comments could easily be taken out of context here.

again, I checked the Swiss media today. Except for "Blick", there's nothing about his father anywhere. The only thing being reported is Sven being sent down and that this is disappointing. Some outlets are quoting Sven directly as being "disappointed because I did everything to make the team". They all seem to blame Hartley for this in Switzerland, which is interesting ... it seems they all took it for granted that Sven is good enough to make the team and since he didn't, it must be on the coach. Certainly found that interesting, maybe they didn't like Bob all that much when he was coaching in Switzerland

and again, I have to reiterate that "Blick" is not what you would call a quality paper. It's a tabloid looking for dramatic headlines and it wouldn't surprise me if they took his dads comments out of context. I already linked that other article in the post of above, but I want to translate a couple of paragraphs from that so you can decide for yourself if you want to believe "Blick":

The question is: has Johnny Gaudreau, who like Bärtschi was selected by the Flames in 2011 (pick #104), overtaken Bärtschi as the most promising talent for a regular spot on the right side? It looks like it at the moment because Gaudreau starts the season in Calgary instead of Bärtschi.

The career trajectories of those two forwards are completely different at the moment. Bärtschi has only had few opportunities to prove his talents. For example he scored 3 goals in 5 games during an emergency recall from the juniors in 2012.

However, neither coach Hartley nor president Burke were high on Bärtschi after that - and if you are fighting for a spot in the NHL, you need the backing from at least one decision-maker. Johnny Gaudreau does have this backing.

While for Bärtschi everything is a permanent fight, Gaudreau's stock further rises every day. He dominated at Boston College and was the the star of the US U20 team at the World Championships. Thanks to many spectacular goals and the spread of them on Youtube he was soon called "Johnny Hockey".

There are worse things than having such a nickname. Another advantage for Gaudreau over Bärtschi: like president Brian Burke, he is American. Burke made signing Gaudreau to a contract a priority this spring, and if Burke wants you on the team, all obstacles will be cleared from your path.

so as I said, decide for yourself ...

[nik-]

Originally Posted by codynw

And by advanced, you mean ridiculous. Right?

To be fair, posting Toffoli hoisting the cup is a ridiculous counter argument.

[codynw]

Originally Posted by nik-

To be fair, posting Toffoli hoisting the cup is a ridiculous counter argument.

Not really. Toffoli was an impact player on a Stanley Cup winning team and Sven is still in the minors. How are their careers at all comparable at this point? Toffoli has almost as many playoff points as Sven does total points.

Sven is nowhere near having "as good a NHL record as fellow 22-year old Tyler Toffoli" as Ricardo stated.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by codynw

Not really. Toffoli was an impact player on a Stanley Cup winning team and Sven is still in the minors. How are their careers at all comparable at this point? Toffoli has almost as many playoff points as Sven does total points.

Sven is nowhere near having "as good a NHL record as fellow 22-year old Tyler Toffoli".

And if Toffoli was a center he wouldn't have even been on the team. He had the fortune of being drafted by a stacked team that had room for him at his position. Sven has the misfortune of being drafted by a team that has a terrible lineup except for at his position.

I like Toffoli, he's a great young player and likely better than Sven, but posting a pic of him with the cup like it's some argument checkmate is just silly.

[RyZ]

Originally Posted by codynw

You say a lot of dumb things, but this might be one of the worst.

Spoiler!

This argument is even worse. I like Toffoli a lot, but he plays a team sport and he plays on a good team. By your logic Toffoli is better than Stamkos, Tavares, Ovechkin, Iginla, Thornton, etc as well. Seriously flawed logic.

[codynw]

Originally Posted by nik-

And if Toffoli was a center he wouldn't have even been on the team. He had the fortune of being drafted by a stacked team that had room for him at his position. Sven has the misfortune of being drafted by a team that has a terrible lineup except for at his position.

I like Toffoli, he's a great young player and likely better than Sven, but posting a pic of him with the cup like it's some argument checkmate is just silly.

I wasn't trying to criticize Sven, and I get that Toffoli is in a better situation. I'm just saying it's crazy to say their careers are comparable at this point.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by codynw

I wasn't trying to criticize Sven, and I get that Toffoli is in a better situation. I'm just saying it's crazy to say their careers are comparable at this point.

Then show reasons they control, not fortune of teams that draft them.

[ricardodw]

Baertschi 24 pts in 51 NHL games .47 ppg 4pts on the PP even strength ppg .39
Toffoli 34 pts in 72 NHL games .47 ppg 6 Pts on the PP even Strength ppg .39

Not comparable at all?

Of Baertschi's 24 NHL pts I would venture to guess he was more significantly involved rather than Tofoli?

Tofoli is on a deep talented winning team that is spending to the cap. Baertschi is not good enough for one of the worst teams in the league?

And you wonder why Baertschi is thinking that the Flames are not treating him fairly.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

I'd much rather hear from Sven himself before making any conclusions as to his state of mind. It seems that management have said the right things. He is close, will likely be a call-up but needs to bring it in Addy. I agree with all of that.
I thought Sven and Johnny would be start the year with the Flames, and voted that way on the poll. However, I was not shocked that he was sent down. It was a highly competitive camp. He just needs to stick with it, and I think once the initial disappointment subsides, he is fully capable of proving he belongs in the NHL. Anything from a Swiss tabloid is just noise.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Baertschi 24 pts in 51 NHL games .47 ppg 4pts on the PP even strength ppg .39
Toffoli 34 pts in 72 NHL games .47 ppg 6 Pts on the PP even Strength ppg .39

Not comparable at all?

Of Baertschi's 24 NHL pts I would venture to guess he was more significantly involved rather than Tofoli?

Tofoli is on a deep talented winning team that is spending to the cap. Baertschi is not good enough for one of the worst teams in the league?

And you wonder why Baertschi is thinking that the Flames are not treating him fairly.

Comparable? Sure. There are similarities, but that shouldn't guarantee that Sven makes the big club.

Toffoli is/was the Kings most touted prospects. He was a goal scorer which was a real need for the kings. I get they are stacked, but they did need more goal scoring (2 years ago, in particular). Instead of sticking with the kings, he was sent down to Manchester and was their best player. He now looks like a real NHLer and a potential star. I would suggest that Sven has, and should receive the same treatment. Dominate the AHL and then make a meaningful contribution to the Flames.