2014 Training Camp Cuts. UPD: Oct 5 - Baertschi, Jooris and Ortio cut

[gartman]

I'm still waiting for the Jeff Shantz forever a flame night
#11 in the rafters

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

my disappointment with this decision would not be anywhere near the level it is had they also cut Setoguchi.

It is possible that he will be in the press box.

No one seems to be focusing on the fact that Gaudreau did make the team and will likely dress. There is also a chance that Bennett will dress (for a few games).

That will mean that vets are in the press box.

How does that mesh with the comments from those that think management have been hypocrites? (that is not directed at you)

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Just to point out an example a little opposite that of C4L.

Tampa had 6 rookies play more than 50 games last season. Palat, Johnson, Gudas, Brown, Kucherov, and Panik. Most of these players played more than 70 games. Palat and Johnson emerged in particular as very good young players who weren't given much thought by most outside of Tampa.

Most people didn't think that Tampa would perform as strongly as they did last season. The Lightning didn't go out in free agency and fill all roster spots with veterans. Of course, key injuries (Stamkos) and cocaine (Malone) played a role in giving these young players more opportunities, ultimately, the team far exceed expectations.

So let's not act like the Senators or the Oilers are the only possible outcomes. We currently have one 21 year old rookie who dominated the NCAA on the roster. If we're extreme in one direction, it's being conservative.

Yes, and Palat was 22 and had spent 2 years in the A.

And Johnson was 23 and had also spent significant time in the A.

And as you mentioned, injuries.

I would expect that sooner or later, people will be talking about all the young rookies in the Flames lineup too.

[DropIt]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

It is possible that he will be in the press box.

No one seems to be focusing on the fact that Gaudreau did make the team and will likely dress. There is also a chance that Bennett will dress (for a few games).

That will mean that vets are in the press box.

How does that mesh with the comments from those that think management have been hypocrites? (that is not directed at you)

As far as i'm concerned, this isnt a vets vs rookies issue. I'm glad that Gaudreau made the team and wouldnt be complaining if id thought that they made the cuts that corresponded with preseason performances

[trackercowe]

Originally Posted by hummdeedoo

This whole year is a tryout.

R-E-L-A-X

[Bunk]

I gotta think consistent high performance is one of the elements of earning a spot. Johnny has been performing at the highest level no matter where he's played. Jooris on the other hand - his AHL performance last year was pretty good, but training camp was really the time he started to really shine for the first time. That's put him on the radar, now they'd probably like to see if he can consistently carry that performance in the AHL - if so he'll earn his spot. Training camp, although important, is a small sample size.

[trackercowe]

It makes you wonder what will happen if Gaudreau is sent down this season; Burke and Treliving may need to hire some protection for a few weeks.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Yes, and Palat was 22 and had spent 2 years in the A.

And Johnson was 23 and had also spent significant time in the A.

And as you mentioned, injuries.

I would expect that sooner or later, people will be talking about all the young rookies in the Flames lineup too.

Baertschi is 22 and has spent 2 years playing pro hockey?

Jooris is 24 years old?

Gaudreau dominated a league with a 0.41 NHLE (slightly less than the AHL at 0.44)?

[Muta]

On the flip side, this type of competition (and players being disappointed) is refreshing. Hopefully the veterans might recognize this and up their games to match fans' expectations, given the backlash today. Much better than the country club atmosphere of five years ago

[DOOM]

Originally Posted by trackercowe

It makes you wonder what will happen if Gaudreau is sent down this season; Burke and Treliving may need to hire some protection for a few weeks.

They signed Gillies to an AHL deal.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

mine has Setoguchi in the minors and Sven, at a higher cap hit, making the squad.

they play the same position and fill the same role?

[trackercowe]

Originally Posted by DOOM

They signed Gillies to an AHL deal.

Oh I meant protection for themselves from rabid fans with pitchforks.

[Mike F]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

my disappointment with this decision would not be anywhere near the level it is had they also cut Setoguchi.

This is it completely for me.

Setogichi, coming off of an 11 goal, 27 point season, hadn't earned the right to be a guy who had to be pushed out by a younger player significantly outperforming him. He should have been trying out with every other bubble player, having to earn a spot on the roster.

He did nothing in the entire preseason, earned nothing, but is still here.

Could he be waived next week? Sure. But if you're going to do that, why wait and force another guy (Baertschi or someone else) to go through the trauma of getting cut?

[kehatch]

The issue isn't with Baertschi being sent down. It's with how he was sent down.

His Flames career starts with a dream emergency call up where he puts in 3 goals in 5 games. The next off season his GM publicly promises him a roster spot saying it would be the "upset special" if he doesn't make the team. But he clearly isn't ready and he is demoted. Eventually he gets called up and he finishes the season playing very good NHL hockey.

Then comes in the new president who almost immediately starts to publicly criticize him. He starts the season with the Flames and plays pretty well. Monahan plays his bets hockey of the season with Baertschi at his wing. In fact, his offensive product asks when Baertschi is eventually demoted. Baertschi takes the demotion pretty hard but eventually gets over it and starts producing at a high rate in the AHL. Unfortunately he is injured late in the season.

This season he comes into training camp ready. He has worked on the things that the Flames asked him to. He is competing hard, playing physical, and doing the right things. The organization publicly says that there are roster spots to be earned.

But this time he doesn't even make the team. He is demoted while a number of vets are playing the way he was previously demoted for playing.

We are talking about a kid here. We are talking about millions of dollars a year being lost due to a two way deal. This is the last season of his ELC and he is waiver eligible soon so he has to be wondering if he even has a career ahead of him.

I understand why the Flames sent him down. I understand some of it is on him. I understand there are other prospects more mentally tough and mature that don't take it as hard. But the Flames are playing unnecessary mind games and they are risking ruining one of their better prospects.

Hopefully Baertschi can shake it off and play well in the AHL and this is all a non issue. But the kid has been sent in a ride the last three or four years.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Baertschi is 22 and has spent 2 years playing pro hockey?

Jooris is 24 years old?

Gaudreau dominated a league with a 0.41 NHLE (slightly less than the AHL at 0.44)?

The point is that it is a process. The results are better with patience.

What you seem to be missing is that opening day is not the only day of the hockey season.

The TB rookies didn't all play on opening night either (and even if they did, it's irrelevant).

The point is that, just because it isn't all happening Wednesday night doesn't mean it won't ever happen

[SuperMatt18]

Setoguchi, Bollig, and McGrattan are non factors in this IMO, they are your 12-14 forwards. You don't make your top prospects extra forwards who sit in the press box, they need to play if they are on the roster.

Baertschi proved last year in the AHL that he can only play LW due to his struggles on the right. People may say they were putting him in a position to fail by playing him on the RW but I disagree and think they were seeing if they could shift him there to get to the NHL even faster since it's a position of weakness.

He needed to win a top 9 LW spot and up until Thursday night he probably would have, but Gaudreau ripped the spot away with his 3 point night. Glencross and Raymond weren't losing their spots out of camp, and we're no less effective than Sven.

Sven just needs to keep his head up because Raymond or Glencross will get injured eventually and he needs to prove he is the first call up and worthy of that spot.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

The point is that it is a process. The results are better with patience.

What you seem to be missing is that opening day is not the only day of the hockey season.

The TB rookies didn't all play on opening night either (and even if they did, it's irrelevant).

The point is that, just because it isn't all happening Wednesday night doesn't mean it won't ever happen

And all I said was that the Flames were anything but the extreme and that putting young players on the roster doesn't mean you'll turn into the Senators or Oilers.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

And all I said was that the Flames were anything but the extreme and that putting young players on the roster doesn't mean you'll turn into the Senators or Oilers.

And again, who is to say they won't? Opening night is only one day on an 82 game schedule

[Nme-Territory]

If certain players show they can't help the team during the regular season, I'm sure it won't take long to see the youngsters back up with the big club. It's a long season and things will change... they always do.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

And again, who is to say they won't? Opening night is only one day on an 82 game schedule

I don't know what else to say beside I think you are misinterpreting the purpose of my post.