2014 Training Camp Cuts. UPD: Oct 5 - Baertschi, Jooris and Ortio cut

[T@T]

"Earned" my arse Hartley, you lying ass.

[Dr. Doom]

I'm not a fan of Sven's media comments and never have been...

But if he's not a write off because of this, he's pretty damn close. So kudos to Flames management...

I don't think he necessarily played his way onto this team either.

What I do know is that the kid is fragile because of how he was handled by previous management (as another poster eluded to it he was handed the keys too early). If the current management doesn't recognize that and instead decides to keep a loaf like Setoguchi - opting to send down a Flames first round pick (PS these don't fall on tree's like Setoguchi's do)... then consider me disappointed.

We know the kid is emotional. As I said if he isn't completely broken as a result of this, I'd imagine the end is very near soon.

So far unimpressed with Treliving (although I suspect Burke is handling this as it smells like a Kadri situation).

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by T@T

"Earned" my arse Hartley, you lying ass.

Seriously? What's with the lack of patience with fans? Jooris may have had a case but Baertschi didn't do anything to separate himself from the pack. IMO he simply hasn't been the player he was in junior in the AHL or NHL. The team gave him every chance to make the team as he was one of the last cut but in the opinion of the coaches and management he's simply not ready. Why do fans think they now better than the team?

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Dr. Doom

I'm not a fan of Sven's media comments and never have been...

But if he's not a write off because of this, he's pretty damn close. So kudos to Flames management...

I don't think he necessarily played his way onto this team either.

What I do know is that the kid is fragile because of how he was handled by previous management (as another poster eluded to it he was handed the keys too early). If the current management doesn't recognize that and instead decides to keep a loaf like Setoguchi - opting to send down a Flames first round pick (PS these don't fall on tree's like Setoguchi's do)... then consider me disappointed.

We know the kid is emotional. As I said if he isn't completely broken as a result of this, I'd imagine the end is very near soon.

So far unimpressed with Treliving (although I suspect Burke is handling this as it smells like a Kadri situation).

If he's broke from getting cut then I would suggest he's mental midget that will soon be in Europe because he won't be an NHL player being that mentally fragile. You're unimpressed with Treliving? I'm unimpressed with Baertschi. Maybe he was handed the keys too early but he dropped them and hasn't been good enough since. Monahan took the keys and ran with them while Sven has pouted, played pretty average in the AHL and had just an okay training camp. That's not good enough.

[saillias]

Wait what, if he isn't completely broken down, the end is very soon? That's extremely dramatic. It reads like the profile of someone on suicide watch.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by saillias

Wait what, if he isn't completely broken down, the end is very soon? That's extremely dramatic. It reads like the profile of someone on suicide watch.

Baertschi apologist like to believe the Flames have broken the kid but the truth is he got a little entitled last year and his play for the Heat or Flames simply hasn't been that great. His feelings may be a little hurt but he's not broken down and simply needs to bust his ass and prove that he deserves to be in the NHL. If he lights things up in the AHL he will get called up. It's all up to him.

[PeteLFan]

The issue with Sven is between the ears. If getting cut is going to ruin his confidence after putting up 1 goal and being mediocre then the guy has a lot of issues.

Johnny hockey minus the points looked like a NHL player. His skill level is elite and his ability to get the puck out of danger is amazing. No way Sven would have beaten him for that job.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by saillias

Wait what, if he isn't completely broken down, the end is very soon? That's extremely dramatic. It reads like the profile of someone on suicide watch.

It is just completely bizarre.

Sven Baertschi has played 124 professional games in his career.

One hundred and twenty four.

Let me repeat that for some of you

ONE HUNDRED TWENTY FOUR

He's still a young player who is still learning. He's not being mismanged or broken or whatever other idiocy some of you guys are inventing because you are simply too damned impatient.

[codynw]

Sorry if this has already been answered but I'm not reading through 20 pages of people crying about Sven to find the answer. Who is left and how many more cuts need to be made?

[DropIt]

Originally Posted by codynw

Sorry if this has already been answered but I'm not reading through 20 pages of people crying about Sven to find the answer. Who is left and how many more cuts need to be made?

none. all done i believe

[Dr. Doom]

Originally Posted by PeteLFan

The issue with Sven is between the ears. If getting cut is going to ruin his confidence after putting up 1 goal and being mediocre then the guy has a lot of issues.

I don't disagree. But again, thinking of him as a first round asset, we need to start pumping his tires. I don't care if the guy is a head case or not, the skill is somewhere and its on our management team to figure out how to best get that out of him. Otherwise sorry we're going to write him off.

If I'm management I'm giving this guy the keys again (apparently its easy to do with veterans like Seto), pump his tires, make him live up to first round status that way and you know what - if you don't like his attitude - deal him for something decent.

As it stands right now all of this drama is being noticed and he's being recognized for a first round flop. In which case suicide watch? No but perception will become reality and he will be written off. A lot of hockey fans I know are already saying he's not going to work out...

As an employer it's your job to get the most out of your crew. Sometimes you don't get to pick and choose those with "confidence" issues... use a different approach already

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by codynw

Sorry if this has already been answered but I'm not reading through 20 pages of people crying about Sven to find the answer. Who is left and how many more cuts need to be made?

Technically Granlund, Bennett, Wotherspoon, and Potter are all on the team as injured players, but will likely be assigned as they get healthy again. Granlund and Wotherspoon may get a chance before being sent down, but likely will need conditioning in the AHL and then get a chance to be recalled.

Realistically, these were the last real cuts in camp.

[DropIt]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Seriously? What's with the lack of patience with fans? Jooris may have had a case but Baertschi didn't do anything to separate himself from the pack. IMO he simply hasn't been the player he was in junior in the AHL or NHL. The team gave him every chance to make the team as he was one of the last cut but in the opinion of the coaches and management he's simply not ready. Why do fans think they now better than the team?

What did Setogucci do better than Baertschi did the entire camp is my question.

Sure, the points weren't there but the offense was. He created chances and continued to play well with Monahan like he did last year. He was better positionally, physically, possessionally anh effort-wise than Seto was. There wasnt a single thing that I saw from Setogucci that I thought "well, he is better than Sven at doing [that]."

I think he earned a spot in camp this year, and even though it never has changed and likely never will change, I am sick of hearing that jobs will be earned.

[Nme-Territory]

As far as I'm concerned, vets deserve a shot to prove themselves in the regular season. Let Seto and Jones and whomever else show their stuff when it matters. If that doesn't pan out, the guys that deserve call-ups will get them. We'll see the team we want to see soon enough.

[c.t.ner]

While it's disappointing that Sven was cut, if Sven can keep the pace and level of play he brought into camp up in the AHL he will be up with the big club by mid-November.

I'd honestly be shocked if Sven wasn't up full time with the Flames for the rest of the year by Christmas.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by Dr. Doom

I'm not a fan of Sven's media comments and never have been...

But if he's not a write off because of this, he's pretty damn close. So kudos to Flames management...

I don't think he necessarily played his way onto this team either.

What I do know is that the kid is fragile because of how he was handled by previous management (as another poster eluded to it he was handed the keys too early). If the current management doesn't recognize that and instead decides to keep a loaf like Setoguchi - opting to send down a Flames first round pick (PS these don't fall on tree's like Setoguchi's do)... then consider me disappointed.

We know the kid is emotional. As I said if he isn't completely broken as a result of this, I'd imagine the end is very near soon.

So far unimpressed with Treliving (although I suspect Burke is handling this as it smells like a Kadri situation).

If works out as well as the Kadri situation did then sign me up as glad they are taking this rout.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by DropIt

I think he earned a spot in camp this year, and even though it never has changed and likely never will change, I am sick of hearing that jobs will be earned.

Why are you sick of it? Do you believe Baertschi should be on the team because he was picked 13th overall? There was a LW spot up for grabs and Gaudreau was simply better at least to this point. He had a few good moments but from what I saw he didn't stand out of the pack like some other players. Quite frankly I'm getting sick of fans saying that he's earned a spot on the Flames roster because he hasn't.

[vanisleflamesfan]

Originally Posted by DropIt

What did Setogucci do better than Baertschi did the entire camp is my question.

I'm not sure why this is so difficult for people to understand. For Sven to be 'as good' as Setoguchi is NOT GOOD ENOUGH! Setoguchi is a cheap, temporary place-holder on a rebuilding team. Setoguchi is there so that the Flames have the luxury of not rushing the development of a first round draft pick who they feel will eventually be CONSIDERABLY better than Setoguchi.

We all mock the (stupid) Oilers for rushing their kids and then we jump on the Flames when they feel that the best thing for a player's development is to be sent down. The fact that the Flames are sending Sven down shows that they still believe in his ability to be the kind of top 6 player that they envisioned when they drafted him. The very point is that he is not there yet, for Sven, in the eyes of the Flames, being as good as Devin frickin' Setoguchi is NOT GOOD enough.

I'm not sure why this is so hard for people to understand.

Simmer down everyone, could it be that the Flames know what they are doing? Could it be that this is really the best thing for Sven? Let's just wait and see before we burn down the Dome.

[Lanny_McDonald]

I think Baertschi's comments area part of the reason he was sent down. He really does appear to me mentally immature and fragile. He needs to toughen up quite a bit. His camp was mediocre and he didn't produce, even though he was given good line mates to work with. He needs to get his stuff together if he has any hope of a call up this season. This outburst probably puts him behind several players again, all because of attitude.

Having said that, management seems to have blown the duke too. If you say that you're going to go with those who earned their position, then hand positions to some of the veterans they did, well, they look just as weak as Mr. Baertschi. There are a few veterans who didn't carry the weight of their hockey equipment this training camp, and they made the opening day roster. Shame on management for not having the cojones to do the right thing.

To those who don't think this means much, you're sadly mistaken. Young players work their asses off all off season and come to camp prepared. Their livelihoods are on the line and their earning is based on which league they play in. There is also honor and bragging rights in making the opening day roster out of camp. When a player doesn't make it, especially when he out performs a player that does, it is hard on the player's psyche. Athletes don't like to fail, and some of these guys will see it as a personal failure. Some take it better than others and recover quickly. Some don't take it well and have a much greater emotional recovery period. This could really hurt the team short and long term, all because public comments were made that weren't followed through on. I'm not sure if Dave Paskevich is still on the payroll, but it might be worth a plane ticket to get him to Addy to talk to some of the young guys and help them get their heads straight.

[Rick M.]

Originally Posted by Cali Flames Fan

Hartley doesn't decide the roster.

And the nonsense is only that in your head. Even look at the things Trevliving is saying regarding these obviously very tough decisions today. Tells me he recognizes the situation and needs to make some moves to get some of these guys up here at some point, but obviously can't make anything happen at the moment. Sounds like he's practicing what he preaches.

Do you even know who you're mad at? Or why?

Where can we find Treliving's remarks about the cuts? All I see is a tweet from a reporter.