CP Mafia 3 - Super Smash Mafia - GAME OVER - Darkness Win!

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by mrkajz44

Surprised no one is talking about this yet - I'll get it started.

I agree option 1 is quite unlikely and should not be considered. Option 2 is a bit more likely, but since Matt has been a large target this whole time, it doesn't really make sense either. I further agree that option 3 is the most likely of the ones you listed.

However, there is an option 4 Rathji did not consider. A townie, thinking Rathji was a townie, redirected the action to Matt, thinking Matt was mafia. For me, this makes the most sense. There was a lot of distrust towards Matt near the end of day 1, and likely some anger after RD flipped town, so it would make a lot of sense for a townie to re-direct the power to Matt to kill / expose him in some way. I do realize this is very similar to Rathji's option 3, but I don't think a townie would have to assume Rathji was mafia in order to re-direct his power on to Matt.

All in all, I'm not sure how much this post helps us with the vague information provided. I agree Rathji's power should be kept secret, but without us knowing the power, all we really know now is that there is likely a role manipulator out there. Makes me wonder if the post was meant to help us, or just a long winded way of making us feel more comfortable with two people as part of the light. (Or Rathji was just sleepy and thought the post would have been helpful).

I'd like to hear other's thoughts on this.

The post was intended to point out 2 likely town people.

Last game, having town people clearly identified helped us out immensely.

There was no indication that the person knew the power they were redirecting, and no way that I know of for them to have figured it out on day 1, so it was just a random choice.

[Timbo]

Originally Posted by Rathji

The post was intended to point out 2 likely town people.

Last game, having town people clearly identified helped us out immensely.

There was no indication that the person knew the power they were redirecting, and no way that I know of for them to have figured it out on day 1, so it was just a random choice.

You are so very right.
Seeking and identifying townies is just as important as hunting scum!

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by mrkajz44

Girly - Hammer can start on Saturday - you've mis-quoted twice saying it cannot fall until Sunday.

Also, just saw the Girly turned down the invite to the Guardians with no real ill consequences. Looking back at my post, I am now changing my mind a bit on these new factions. I was under the impression it was a 'blackmail' invitation, but it looks like it was only ECF that told this story. However, the entry into the Guardians may be (and likely is) different from the Eternals. Hard to say, but it appears ECF is alone in his story for now.

I'm keeping my vote on ECF.

Sorry im dumb and can't read. It is indeed Saturday.

I think the next person who gets invited to the Eternals will be key if there are consequences for not joining.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by Timbo

By doing this I think you may have strengthened the possibility of a lynch of one of the three ECF and GP_Matt and starseed who oddly enough thanked you for not joining the group he is affiliated with. The brings me to the conclusion of...WTF

Lynching one of the 3 might be our only option to find out anything about these factions.

Yet I wonder if they truly were shedding light on darkness would a Mafia Scum join? If one of these three flips townie I see a big target painted on your back.

Either way it was a ballsy move.

I rejected it to help the town gain more information and to confirm what Starseed said. And to show it's voluntary. I'm waiting for us all to see if anything happens to me.

We need to see two sides of everything. The next person invited to the Eternals should reject it to see what happens.

I'm not sure what to make of Rathji getting his actions moved. Probably just a random Night 1 move.

[starseed]

I have reviewed ECF's posts, and went through paranoia mind games with myself in trying to see links between him and other posters.

He was quick to attack GGG for stopping the bizaro (proven townie) vote train. The logical inconsistencies are too hard to ignore, and the behaviour surrounding the Eternals joining and voting Matt was bizarre.

I think he is my top pick at this point.

Unvote
Vote: East Coast Flame

[GP_Matt]

Vote: East Coast Flame

I have two main reasons for voting him.
The first is this post.

Originally Posted by East Coast Flame

I advocated for using the hammer because I believe (and still believe) that the mafia were attempting to deliberately stall us and come to the deadline with a no lynch.

The first time we waited for an explanation from Matt, he posted and confused everything (something I still don't believe he has offered an acceptable explanation for).

I didn't think RD's post would change anything, and it would only add to more confusion.

To start with, if the mafia were trying to stall to get us into a no lynch situation they would have had to remove votes at the last minute. That would have been perfect for the town. We would have had a list of mafia members and could have picked them off one at a time. At least four votes would have had to have been removed at the last minute. We would have the whole game wrapped up.

He also claims that he still doesn't like my explanation for how I knew that RD was out of town. At this point RD had been proven a townie so even if I was mafia I would have had no way to communicate with him in the game. There is no way that I could have had the information that I provided unless I knew him personally which is what I said. If you don't believe me please provide a situation where I could have had that information in the game.


The other reason to vote for him is because I think one of the members of the Eternals or the Guardians needs to die so that the town can move on to our real task of hunting scum. There are three members at this point, one in the Guardians and two in the Eternals. If I suggest killing Starseed my motives will be suspicious and continue to cloud the towns views of the groups. By lynching someone in my own group I am levelling the membership and showing that there is no advantage to having more members in this group.

[Mazrim]

Vote Count:

With 19 alive, it takes 10 votes on any one player to hammer. It takes 7 votes to deadline lynch.

Hasn’t Voted (7): formulate, Drury18, hmmhmmcamo, Hockeyguy15, Rathji, Baxter Renegade, Puxlut

Voted:
GP_Matt (6): GirlySports, East Coast Flame, squiggs96, Oling_Roachinen, dissentowner
East Coast Flame (5): mrkajz44, GGG, Wood, starseed, GP_Matt
GirlySports (1): Timbo
Puxlut (1): Delgar

The deadline is Wednesday, October 8th at 10:00 PM Mountain Time. Hammer cannot be dropped before Saturday, October 4th at 10:00 PM Mountain Time.

[East Coast Flame]

Alright, I will try and defend myself for a bit here.

Firstly I got called out about my first post asking a question about the game - I read over the first post and still can't find anything about this being a closed game. I thought it was a reasonable question.

So joining this group - I have tried to answer everyones question about it as honestly as I could. The invitation was pretty vauge so I still don't totally understand it. It was a choice to join and I accepted. I was given something when I joined. If I refused the offer I would be "targeted" and the gift would be given to someone else. I thought the gift would be beneficial, and I also didn't want it falling into the wrong hands.

I am assuming Starseeds message was different because we were asked to join by different groups.

The invite said nothing about GP_Matt, we have no way to communicate outside this thread.

My victory condition and original role has not changed by joining this group.

[Drury18]

I find it peculiar that the same person who posted these, was the same person who received an invite to join one of the groups a few hours later (depending on what "late" last night specifically means).

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Interesting. But GGG before you want to lynch the next person who joins. I will breakdown the scenarios.

1) If these are invitations are from the mafia and can't be refused.
lynching the next person is too easy, they'll handpick someone and we'll do the dirty work for them. They get a free daytime kill.

2) If these invitations are from the mafia and can be refused
if we say we are lynching the next person then nobody will except and nothing happens*. Can a person who refused even say they refused? We don't know this yet because nobody has said they refused.

3) If these invitations are not from mafia and can't be refused
if we say we are lynching the next person, then this person suddenly has a lot of power and his/her decision will be final, one single vote

4) If these invitations are not from mafia and can be refused
if we say we are lynching the next person, then if scum is chosen they will simply refuse and town will be confused due to inaction*. This is probably the worse scenario

5) If these invitations can be from anyone who has that power
then the next person who can't refuse will be lynched. Or everyone will refuse and nothing happens*.

*Unless something happens when someone refuses, we don't know this either.

What do you think is most likely?

Originally Posted by GirlySports

GGG: you said yourself "If another guardian appears then it wouldn't have been voluntary" so that is still a possibility is it not? What if these ones were voluntary but as the cult grows it is no longer voluntary.

and you forgot my asterisk part

*Unless something happens when someone refuses, we don't know this either.

Maybe it's not simply, a person is asked to join, they don't, they report in tomorrow with what happened. What if they are ramifications for not accepting?

This after Timbo accused her of deflecting, she jumped on me for my post about the theory that acceptance of membership might lead to an extra kill so I'd better vote for someone in a group because otherwise I'm just authorizing extra kills at night, and then accused GGG of accusing her of "leading the charge" after she specifically said

Originally Posted by GirlySports

And I'm hunting like anyone else. I disclosed the voting inconsistency of GP_Matt and cast the first vote on Day 2. I'm not just following along, ECF and I are leading the charge. I think you are wandering around aimlessly.

It sort of feels like GirlySports stirred up some crap and then screamed "I didn't accept an invite" so that all the previous stuff would be absolved.

[dissentowner]

I am not changing my vote. GP_Matt has been slipping through the cracks since day 1, always deflecting the votes elsewhere while giving contradictory info on himself. If we are going to vote an Eternal out I would rather go with him.

[Drury18]

I also agree with GGG (words I didn't think I'd ever say), that there has been this incredible evolving story between GP_Matt and ECF over what's involved with this group and the membership and consequences.

Following along, I found it odd how every couple of hours more and more of the story keeps coming out, except for how what they've accepted will benefit the town. GP_Matt keeps refusing to talk of powers (which being Day 2 and seeing how this game plays out now, I'm starting to understand where that benefit might be. My "n00b" is starting to wear off the more I'm seeing the game evolve. The learning curve in this game for a first timer is brutal) and ECF just stating that she didn't want it falling into the wrong hands. I still haven't really heard from either of them something that makes me believe what they've accepted will actually help the town. Both also only refer to winning as "victory conditions haven't changed" but have either outright said that if they win, the light wins? That seems like a pretty simple thing to just come out and say.

And then GP_Matt now twice voting for someone who they had some connection with as a way to prove his own innocence.


...and of course the whole paranoia that I'm focusing far too much on the groups while scum is running around playing us in open sight because we are fixated on the new shiny thing.

[formulate]

Super important question for GirlySports:

Did your 'recruitment' message state that your win conditions (and therefore alignment) would not change if you joined?

If not, the three players who have joined are almost assuredly lying about their messages, and their respective cults are now separate factions competing against the town and the mafia.

If the message did assure you that your win conditions remain the same, everyone can ignore this post.

[East Coast Flame]

Originally Posted by Drury18

I also agree with GGG (words I didn't think I'd ever say), that there has been this incredible evolving story between GP_Matt and ECF over what's involved with this group and the membership and consequences.

Following along, I found it odd how every couple of hours more and more of the story keeps coming out, except for how what they've accepted will benefit the town. GP_Matt keeps refusing to talk of powers (which being Day 2 and seeing how this game plays out now, I'm starting to understand where that benefit might be. My "n00b" is starting to wear off the more I'm seeing the game evolve. The learning curve in this game for a first timer is brutal) and ECF just stating that she didn't want it falling into the wrong hands. I still haven't really heard from either of them something that makes me believe what they've accepted will actually help the town. Both also only refer to winning as "victory conditions haven't changed" but have either outright said that if they win, the light wins? That seems like a pretty simple thing to just come out and say.

And then GP_Matt now twice voting for someone who they had some connection with as a way to prove his own innocence.


...and of course the whole paranoia that I'm focusing far too much on the groups while scum is running around playing us in open sight because we are fixated on the new shiny thing.

I tried to be as honest as possible about the group without telling what I got from it. Same as why everyone doesn't come out and tell everyone their role and ability.

My victory conditions didn't change - I was on the side of light in the beginning, I still win if light wins.

[formulate]

If the answer is no I think we have an easy lynch (GP Matt or ECF, to even up the cults). If the answer is yes, I have a few points on ECF that I'd like to add/reiterate, and likely a vote, but I'll wait for Girly to answer, or more likely I'll get impatient and go ahead.

[starseed]

Originally Posted by formulate

Super important question for GirlySports:

Did your 'recruitment' message state that your win conditions (and therefore alignment) would not change if you joined?

If not, the three players who have joined are almost assuredly lying about their messages, and their respective cults are now separate factions competing against the town and the mafia.

If the message did assure you that your win conditions remain the same, everyone can ignore this post.

It doesn't specifically mention that, which is why I asked Mazrim about it. He told me that my role and alignment would not change.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by formulate

Super important question for GirlySports:

Did your 'recruitment' message state that your win conditions (and therefore alignment) would not change if you joined?

If not, the three players who have joined are almost assuredly lying about their messages, and their respective cults are now separate factions competing against the town and the mafia.

If the message did assure you that your win conditions remain the same, everyone can ignore this post.

It did not state anything about my alignment or win conditions at all.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

It did not state anything about my alignment or win conditions at all.

Well that is interesting. Either the other three are lying or you are bending the truth to get us to vote against them. Welcome to an even bigger mess folks.

[formulate]

I suppose, Girly, that you rejected the offer before asking to confirm that your alignment wouldn't change?

I took a look back through and (correct me if I'm wrong) nowhere did any of the 3 state that the message contained assurance of unchanged win condition. They had to send a message to confirm. Kind of a missed opportunity for a long shot cult-scum unveil.

[starseed]

I asked Mazrim and got a response before accepting, so the next person to be recruited by the eternals should ask mazrim, reject, then report back.

[GirlySports]

I didn't ask. I assumed the letter would say it if alignment changed upon acceptance or refusal especially since Starseed said earlier in the day a couple of times that he was not threatened in any way.

He Said "I confirmed that I would still be light before accepting whatever the hell it was that I accepted. "
I also wanted to see what would happen if I rejected then report it to the town or have the town see for itself. Nothing has happened yet.