Devin Setoguchi

[Frank MetaMusil]

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

Great point. We could've easily compliance bought out or just bought out a turd like Jones and brought in a guy like Heatley. Not sure why they kept him, probably for the cap hit. Setoguchi should have more rope than any vet forward on our roster not named Backlund, Hudler or Glencross, when you factor in salary and how much of a chance they've been afforded.

Feaster was fired for trades like this, but the man knows how to tank a team.

Jones is definitely being kept for cap hit, but anyone wanting McDavid on the Flames shouldn't be bashing that decision.

[chubeyr1]

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

Great point. We could've easily compliance bought out or just bought out a turd like Jones and brought in a guy like Heatley. Not sure why they kept him, probably for the cap hit. Setoguchi should have more rope than any vet forward on our roster not named Backlund, Hudler or Glencross, when you factor in salary and how much of a chance they've been afforded.

Why? What has he done for us? Cause of his salary? Same could be said about Bennett Gaudreau Sven Granlund Ferland etc.

Not saying Setoguchi wont work out, just asking why he should be given more of a chance than others? If others are outperforming him at similar pay level why keep him?

I work at a job where if you don't perform you get fired. Sure I have off days, but my overall performance earns me loyalty from the bosses. They really don't care what I did four years ago, yet it did help me get the job. I have kept the job cause I perform.

This is not to say Flames management wont act very business like. 90 day probation period, Setoguchi don't cut it you let him go.

[kehatch]

Originally Posted by Da_Chief

Unless he becomes a 40 goal scorer this year, the haters will continue to hate. Make zero sense for what we're paying him.

He's still only 27 and can still turn his career around. He's got size, speed and has some skill too. It's up to him but judging him the pre-season makes ZERO sense.

It's this type of over the top argument that fuels the debate in a negative way. I don't like his lack of work ethic. I don't like his irresponsible decisions like blind passes at the blue line. I think in many ways he is the player the Flames are desperately trying to keep Baertschi from turning into. I don't care if he make minimum wage or not, I don't want him on the ice if that is how he is going to play.

So far in preseason he is showing us he is the same player that fans learned to dislike in Winnipeg. There is a reason he cycles from team to team and was forced to sign a 1 year near minimum wage contract.

Try the arrogant "haters going to hate" line if he actually accomplishes something. Because so far he is proving the "haters" right.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by chubeyr1

Why? What has he done for us? Cause of his salary? Same could be said about Bennett Gaudreau Sven Granlund Ferland etc.

Not saying Setoguchi wont work out, just asking why he should be given more of a chance than others? If others are outperforming him at similar pay level why keep him?

I work at a job where if you don't perform you get fired. Sure I have off days, but my overall performance earns me loyalty from the bosses. They really don't care what I did four years ago, yet it did help me get the job. I have kept the job cause I perform.

This is not to say Flames management wont act very business like. 90 day probation period, Setoguchi don't cut it you let him go.

Except, Setoguchi HASN"T been given a chance. That's the point. Sorry but a handful of preseason games means precisely nothing. Nobody is outperforming anyone, it's the preseason. His pay level is his not a problem, especially when comparing him to literally any other player not on a ELC.

Yes I work at a job where you can get fired too, but I'm not really sure how that applies to this situation at all. It would be comparable getting hired for a job, getting paid minimum wage and getting fired 15 minutes into your first shift because you are performing slightly worse than people who have been employed at the same place for years and they make $50/hr.

What would your probation period be? All I'm advocating is that we wait until the middle of November before we make Setoguchi the next CP whipping boy.

[Frank MetaMusil]

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

Except, Setoguchi HASN"T been given a chance. That's the point. Sorry but a handful of preseason games means precisely nothing. Nobody is outperforming anyone, it's the preseason. His pay level is his not a problem, especially when comparing him to literally any other player not on a ELC.

Yes I work at a job where you can get fired too, but I'm not really sure how that applies to this situation at all. It would be comparable getting hired for a job, getting paid minimum wage and getting fired 15 minutes into your first shift because you are performing slightly worse than people who have been employed at the same place for years and they make $50/hr.

What would your probation period be? All I'm advocating is that we wait until the middle of November before we make Setoguchi the next CP whipping boy.

I don't think that really matters. Iginla played here for 16 seasons and there were multiple threads and posters who just wanted him off the team.

Some people don't think younger players who have shown more in a Flames uniform to this stage, are going to get a fair shake because Setoguchi is taking up a spot. His probation period isn't the point. That's not hating on the player himself, so much as the decision to sign him, imo.

The same could go for Treliving though. Hasn't been the GM for one regular season game, and yet he probably deserves a probation period. It's also a fair point to be scared he's looking at reclamation projects so early.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Calgary had years of lousy reclamation projects. Bertuzzi, Friesen, Amonte, Nolan, etc. At least this one has better potential bang for the buck.

[Frank MetaMusil]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Calgary had years of lousy reclamation projects. Bertuzzi, Friesen, Amonte, Nolan, etc. At least this one has better potential bang for the buck.

They've got a ton of them for goalies as well over the years.

Vernon's second tour of duty, Joseph, Wregget, Fuhr, etc.

Hiller might be one.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Frank MetaMusil

I don't think that really matters. Iginla played here for 16 seasons and there were multiple threads and posters who just wanted him off the team.

Some people don't think younger players who have shown more in a Flames uniform to this stage, are going to get a fair shake because Setoguchi is taking up a spot. His probation period isn't the point. That's not hating on the player himself, so much as the decision to sign him, imo.

The same could go for Treliving though. Hasn't been the GM for one regular season game, and yet he probably deserves a probation period. It's also a fair point to be scared he's looking at reclamation projects so early.

I personally never wrote off Iginla, I always had faith he'd produce even when he got off to the occasional slow start.

Maybe the decision to sign him was wrong, it's entirely possible. My point is, we can't know that until we actually see him play some real games. There's also other angles to this, like waiver eligibility, 1 way and 2 way contracts, being a natural RH RWer, proven history of being a 20-30 goal guy vs being unproven (rightly or wrongly). He has also scored more career goals than anyone on the flames roster. Lots of factors at play here.

I'm just going to watch and see what happens. If he succeeds, great... that's awesome for the flames. If not, whatever... it will have no impact on anything in that case. If a young player is truly ready, he will force his way onto the team, Setoguchi or not, I truly believe that. But just because a player doesn't make the team out of camp doesn't mean he's lost for the year. He can still play his way onto the team, and Setoguchi can easily play himself of the team as well. I trust Hartley will make the right call, he seems like he knows what he's doing.

I wouldn't be surprised ether way. Personally I'm hoping he figures it out and becomes an asset to the team.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Calgary had years of lousy reclamation projects. Bertuzzi, Friesen, Amonte, Nolan, etc. At least this one has better potential bang for the buck.

Bertuzzi and Nolan were pretty good here.

Also Amonte and Nolan were grizzled vets playing out their career, not reclamation projects.

You know who recent reclamation projects have been? Kris Russell and Karri Ramo

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

Bertuzzi and Nolan were pretty good here.

Also Amonte and Nolan were grizzled vets playing out their career, not reclamation projects.

You know who recent reclamation projects have been? Kris Russell and Karri Ramo

Yep. I could easily see Devin Setoguchi being this year's...gasp... Mason Raymond... and shutting people up. I could also see Mason Raymond being this year's... Devin Setoguchi. if that makes any sense. Ugh... I think I hurt my head...

[FBI]

I'm pretty sure heatley would sign here if we offered him 5 million lol.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

Bertuzzi and Nolan were pretty good here.

Also Amonte and Nolan were grizzled vets playing out their career, not reclamation projects.

You know who recent reclamation projects have been? Kris Russell and Karri Ramo

The best reclamation project was Alex Tanguay. That worked out to the Flames having to take David Jones salary for someone else to take Tanguay's salary.

Stajan was an internal reclamation project... He once was at a point that he was basically playing out the end of his contract and was un-tradeable.... Then he refocused and played better for a short time and now he has another long term 3.15M deal to be the Flames 4th line centre next year behind Monahan, Bennett and Backlund.... unless Granlund, Rienhart, Colborne, Bouma, Byron or Knight or Arnold or even Jankowski bump him further down the depth chart.

There are very few examples of long term reclamation projects when the player has 10M in earnings (Tanguay, Stajan, Cheechoo, Setoguchi, Penner) and needs a special set of circumstances to play up to their capabilities.

Can anyone come up with an example that goes contrary to this?


PS. When the Flames were in win-now mode Morrison was picked up off the retirement heap and had a great year.... but that was more of a adding a grizzled veteran playing hard to get another year or two.

[edslunch]

This is not actually about Devin Setoguchi. If you believe he can fill a hole in the lineup then he is low risk/medium reward and you give him time to prove or disprove it. The people who are clamouring for him to be judged on his preseason (I was one of them) are really saying they'd rather see a prospect take that spot and wish he was never signed

[csnarpy]

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

Yep. I could easily see Devin Setoguchi being this year's...gasp... Mason Raymond... and shutting people up. I could also see Mason Raymond being this year's... Devin Setoguchi. if that makes any sense. Ugh... I think I hurt my head...

If Raymond and/or Setoguchi comes anywhere near to what Brendon Morrison was, in his first year, then I'll be extremely happy.

[ForeverFlameFan]

I think for the first bit of the season, Jones and Seto will be battling it out for the 3rd line RW position, at least until one establishes that he deserves the roster spot more than the other guy.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

The best reclamation project was Alex Tanguay. That worked out to the Flames having to take David Jones salary for someone else to take Tanguay's salary.

Stajan was an internal reclamation project... He once was at a point that he was basically playing out the end of his contract and was un-tradeable.... Then he refocused and played better for a short time and now he has another long term 3.15M deal to be the Flames 4th line centre next year behind Monahan, Bennett and Backlund.... unless Granlund, Rienhart, Colborne, Bouma, Byron or Knight or Arnold or even Jankowski bump him further down the depth chart.

There are very few examples of long term reclamation projects when the player has 10M in earnings (Tanguay, Stajan, Cheechoo, Setoguchi, Penner) and needs a special set of circumstances to play up to their capabilities.

Can anyone come up with an example that goes contrary to this?


PS. When the Flames were in win-now mode Morrison was picked up off the retirement heap and had a great year.... but that was more of a adding a grizzled veteran playing hard to get another year or two.

Tanguay was a very good reclamation project. Was in-tough to find another contract, and came to Calgary and did well. Up until he got injured in Colorado last year, was doing well there too. The trade has ZERO to do with him being a good or a bad reclamation project.

As for Morrison, what exactly is the difference between him and Setoguchi at the moment? Setoguchi was a very late signing, so few (if any) other teams were interested. Morrison only managed to get a PTO. They are reclamation projects in this case because they were both at the end of their careers as NHL players. Age doesn't change this. Morrison managed to get signed by the Flames and had his career extended a bit longer with a decent performance. Setoguchi is hoping for exactly the same thing, no?

[csnarpy]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

As for Morrison, what exactly is the difference between him and Setoguchi at the moment? Setoguchi was a very late signing, so few (if any) other teams were interested. Morrison only managed to get a PTO. They are reclamation projects in this case because they were both at the end of their careers as NHL players. Age doesn't change this. Morrison managed to get signed by the Flames and had his career extended a bit longer with a decent performance. Setoguchi is hoping for exactly the same thing, no?

Yes! I wasn't disputing you. Just hoping for the same outcome. Just a comment, not an argument.

[saillias]

Flames fans are just tired of reclamation projects, we watched Darryl bring them here repeatedly at the expense of our own drafting & development, and after a few painful years we finally have some exciting prospects on the cusp, and here we are with these same old, "former 20 goal scorers" and the same arguments. I don't blame anyone for getting frustrated, we'd all rather watch Gaudreau than Setoguchi.

[FlamesAddiction]

Setoguchi was doing well creating traffic in front of the net on Monahan's goal in the Vancouver game.

I think he is still trying to find chemistry a little bit, which can take some time.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

Tanguay was a very good reclamation project. Was in-tough to find another contract, and came to Calgary and did well. Up until he got injured in Colorado last year, was doing well there too. The trade has ZERO to do with him being a good or a bad reclamation project.

As for Morrison, what exactly is the difference between him and Setoguchi at the moment? Setoguchi was a very late signing, so few (if any) other teams were interested. Morrison only managed to get a PTO. They are reclamation projects in this case because they were both at the end of their careers as NHL players. Age doesn't change this. Morrison managed to get signed by the Flames and had his career extended a bit longer with a decent performance. Setoguchi is hoping for exactly the same thing, no?

Morrison was supposed to be a piece that got the Flames into the playoffs. His low salary was very important as the Flames were right against the cap and had no prospects close to playing at the NHL level.

I would totally understand that if the Flames had a solid top-9 that was playoff bound and Steoguchi was brought in as cheap injury insurance.


If you can't see that Tanguay was a negative for the Flames , a small talented guy who was pouting half the time because he wasn't being used properly in his mind who basically quit on the Flames when Iginla got traded.

There was no way he could have remained on the Flames after he quit and was going to get paid the rest of the 11M the Flames still owed him.