The Scientific evidence is in: 9/11 was an inside job

[Buff]

Originally Posted by Looger

he asked me where's the backup for all this science, and i posted the links.

i bet his mom still cuts his steak-ey.

He asked you if they take into account other possiblitlies such as the one that he brought up. You did not answer that question, you ignored it.

[Frank the Tank]

Originally Posted by Looger

wow. this is some stinging commentary.

I like pie.

[underGRADFlame]

Originally Posted by Looger

why does everyone think bush was the main man in these 9/11 government involvement theories?

plenty of mainstream press reported the code words that circulated that day - "the angel is next" - they said that since 'angel' means air force one, that there was a threat or a fear of the terrorists hitting the president's plane.

for once the mainstream media got it right.

bush was threatened, webster tarpley wrote a book called '9/11: synthetic terror made in the usa' that details this very probable development, take a look at dubya sitting stunned in that classroom.

he had been threatened with his life - go along and be our puppet, and we won't shoot down your plane.

just a blip on the radar screen. fox two!

the neo cons running the white house and pentagon and their backers are some sick sick *******s, the same bunch that was running wild in central america 20 years ago. college of the americas, deathsquads, assassinations, torture, drugs, you name it.

You know, until you wrote this, tinfoil hat wearing half baked consiprisy theory, I was willing to listen just to see what was said. But if you believe in the NWO/Illiminati crap you have some serious problems. There are some justafiable consperacisy out there, but you just made yourself sound like lunatic. How in the hell does AF1 get shot out of the sky over US soil. Bush wasen't theatend, the reason he looked spooked at the school is because he's a idiot and he had no idea what to do in the siduation. But how in gods green earth can you think that AF1 would get shot down, by rouge american generals and CIA types. I know how the government uses the media to swing public oppinion and such but thats something you cant cover up. Do us all a favour and put the pipe down and go get some fresh air.

[Looger]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

Sure I'd love to see some independently verified evidence that thermite was found on the building. I'd also like to see if those tests found traces of other elements that are usually added to thermite to make it more useful as a demoltions tool such as Barium Nitrate.

I'd also like to seem some investigation to ensure that these aren't traces left over from some sort of comercial use, such as welding. Something that very well could have been done in repairing the building while it was under construction, or after it was completed.

Also, did the guy mention that the thermite reaction is simply the oxidation of aluminum using another metal oxide.
One reaction (commonly used in welding is)

Fe2O3 + 2 Al ---> Al2O3 + 2 Fe

or

Rust + Aluminum ---> Aluminum oxide + Iron

It takes a lot of energy to get this kind of thing going so magnesium is sometimes used to kick start things.

Well, guess what?
Planes contain magnesium, aluminum, and there's a pretty good chance that the beams were a little rusty. Oh, and this would produce enought heat to melt the steel as well.

Hmmmmm.....but that'd be crazy.

as to your questions here, if these are the ones to which you refer (you weren't too clear), then yes, he talks aboot these things, he applies scientific method to the entire situation, what's present in the evidence and what should be present in the buildings.

i don't know what else i can tell you. if you want to check it out you will, if you don't you won't, fine.

[Looger]

Originally Posted by undergradflame

You know, until you wrote this, tinfoil hat wearing half baked consiprisy theory, I was willing to listen just to see what was said. But if you believe in the NWO/Illiminati crap you have some serious problems. There are some justafiable consperacisy out there, but you just made yourself sound like lunatic. How in the hell does AF1 get shot out of the sky over US soil. Bush wasen't theatend, the reason he looked spooked at the school is because he's a idiot and he had no idea what to do in the siduation. But how in gods green earth can you think that AF1 would get shot down, by rouge american generals and CIA types. I know how the government uses the media to swing public oppinion and such but thats something you cant cover up. Do us all a favour and put the pipe down and go get some fresh air.

the very fact that you're attacking me and what i think, and ignoring what evidence there might be, tells me all that i need to know.

what does what i believe happened have ANYTHING to do with wht evidence the scholars for 9/11 have found?

unbelievable that you don't think shadowy intelligence outfits infiltrate our governments, i guess the united states is the first country in history to be the big boy on the block and not have aggressive generals and private interests willing to use power to maintain / gain more power.

if you don't like what i'm saying, then don't listen.

[Frank the Tank]

Originally Posted by Looger

the scholars for 9/11 have found?

Is that like a club or something? Can I be one? I have my University degree, does that make me a "scholar"?

[Looger]

Originally Posted by Frank the Tank

I like pie.

i think there's a thread for that. maybe the moderator will merge them.

[Looger]

Originally Posted by Frank the Tank

Is that like a club or something? Can I be one? I have my University degree, does that make me a "scholar"?

ask them. but be warned, they like to investigate. better go back to FOX news.

[Frank the Tank]

Originally Posted by Looger

ask them. but be warned, they like to investigate. better go back to FOX news.

You're very upset that people are challenging your views. Did you think we'd all read your links and gasp aloud screaming "we KNEW it"!?

[Looger]

Originally Posted by Frank the Tank

You're very upset that people are challenging your views. Did you think we'd all read your links and gasp aloud screaming "we KNEW it"!?

i'm responding to your snooty attitude. get used to that, it'll happen a lot in life.

EDIT:

i sincerely hope that me saying something will not convince people. i sincerely hope that people will check it out for themselves. if you want copies of dvd's i have, or just want to see them, let me know.

[Frank the Tank]

Originally Posted by Looger

i'm responding to your snooty attitude. get used to that, it'll happen a lot in life.

HA! Ya because I'm 24 and just out of school. Thanks for the advice.

[Looger]

Originally Posted by Frank the Tank

HA! Ya because I'm 24 and just out of school. Thanks for the advice.

and thanks for the input. it's quite enlightening.

[underGRADFlame]

Originally Posted by Looger

the very fact that you're attacking me and what i think, and ignoring what evidence there might be, tells me all that i need to know.

what does what i believe happened have ANYTHING to do with wht evidence the scholars for 9/11 have found?

unbelievable that you don't think shadowy intelligence outfits infiltrate our governments, i guess the united states is the first country in history to be the big boy on the block and not have aggressive generals and private interests willing to use power to maintain / gain more power.

if you don't like what i'm saying, then don't listen.

Listen, I find conspirasy theroies very interesting, and do alot of reading on these subjects. But, these massivie therories that would have to involve thousands of people, all lying and covering up the truth and manipulating the media, I find far fetched. Do I belive that some people in the CIA/US military are doing bad things to further theyre personal desires, yes. But to think that they would go to the lengths brought up in this threat are very far fetched.
For an example, the JFK assasination, I do not believe Oswald acted alone, wether it was CIA or who ever that help cover it up, this is something that could be accomplished by a very small number of people. If the CIA/US military was to have a hand in 9/11 and the destruction of the buildings and the mass murder of 1000's of people on TV, too many people would be in the know of such events. Someone other than a janitor that was in the basment would be talking. Is it possible that it happened, sure but what are the realities of it?
Now, I'm not attacking you, my comments were made in jest at how far fetched they sound(step back and read it it over). As for the facts that have been brought up, I haven't watched the video's or read the documents, so I cant comment on what they say but the ability to manipulate facts to make them support your point of view is very easy, ask any lawyer. I was reacting to the fact that you actually believe the Presidents life was in jepordy or that AF1 would be shot down, as you implied, by a fighter jet, to this I call BS. It wouldn't happen over US soil.

You sound very sure of what you've seen and read, and thats great but stop tying to force feed us, yeah I know people jumped on you right away for sharing, but you said it was a "fact" when there are only theroies. Just like some think its a fact that Jesus walked on water, where I'm sure Cheese would say its only a therory.

[Looger]

undergradflame,

have you actually read my posts?

i'm not trying to force-feed you, i'm trying to ask if anyone wants to see what i have.

so far i have just been attacked.

[Looger]

Originally Posted by undergradflame

Someone other than a janitor that was in the basment would be talking. Is it possible that it happened, sure but what are the realities of it?

http://www.911forthetruth.com/pages/Rodriguez.htm

according to his presentation he knows plenty of people that he's lobbied the 9/11 commission to talk to, they never did.

i'm not even sure what stuff i have from him, haven't had time to check it out. his speech was pretty graphic, he lost a lot of friends and he's quite moved to find answers.

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by Looger

http://www.911forthetruth.com/pages/Rodriguez.htm

according to his presentation he knows plenty of people that he's lobbied the 9/11 commission to talk to, they never did.

i'm not even sure what stuff i have from him, haven't had time to check it out. his speech was pretty graphic, he lost a lot of friends and he's quite moved to find answers.

Now, I have taken the following words from the PDF that debunked the Conspiracy Theory, so take it for what it's worth. This is what Rodriguez apparently said:
And I thought it was a generator that blew up in the basement."
" And I said to myself: Oh my God, I think that's the generator. "
" And I was going to verbalize it, and when I finished saying that in my mind, I hear boom!

Now what I heard as an explanation for this was the shock wave of the plane hitting went down the steel of the building first, and reverbitated in the basement. Then the sound followed after. From what he said, he didn't even have time to say anything between the two events. So once again somebody was either remote detonating something within less than a second from when the plane struck, or the fact is the shockwave travelled faster through steel than through air.

The one thing that rates on my "that sounds wierd" meter: if somebody was blowing out the pilings of a building that big; wouldn't have that much forced created a sound much louder than a transformer blowing up?

The other question: I recall hearing that the towers collapsing was measured on the Richter scale. Wouldn't an explosion of a force capable of ripping out the pilings also measure on the Richter scale?

[Cowperson]

Originally Posted by ken0042

Now, I have taken the following words from the PDF that debunked the Conspiracy Theory, so take it for what it's worth. This is what Rodriguez apparently said:
And I thought it was a generator that blew up in the basement."
" And I said to myself: Oh my God, I think that's the generator. "
" And I was going to verbalize it, and when I finished saying that in my mind, I hear boom!

Now what I heard as an explanation for this was the shock wave of the plane hitting went down the steel of the building first, and reverbitated in the basement. Then the sound followed after. From what he said, he didn't even have time to say anything between the two events. So once again somebody was either remote detonating something within less than a second from when the plane struck, or the fact is the shockwave travelled faster through steel than through air.

The one thing that rates on my "that sounds wierd" meter: if somebody was blowing out the pilings of a building that big; wouldn't have that much forced created a sound much louder than a transformer blowing up?

The other question: I recall hearing that the towers collapsing was measured on the Richter scale. Wouldn't an explosion of a force capable of ripping out the pilings also measure on the Richter scale?

Not to mention the second janitor who was burned in this alleged explosion seems to have been standing next to an elevator shaft . . . . . that's an easy conduit for an explosion from the airplane to travel down and take him out.

"He had been standing in front of a freight elevator on sub-level 1 about 400 feet from the office when fire burst out of the elevator shaft, causing his injuries." The skin on his face had been peeled away by the heat of the blast and he was horribly burned on thirty-three percent of his body. "He was burned so badly from the basement explosion that flesh was hanging from his face and both arms." William asks: "How could a jetliner hit 90 floors above and burn a man's arms and face to a crisp in the basement below within seconds of impact?" William led Felipe David outside to safety.

http://williamrodriguezwtc.blogspot.com/

Cowperson

[Cube Inmate]

The majority of people on here think Looger is out to lunch....

But let me ask you this--what's more insane: believing something insane when presented by a smooth talker, or trying to convince an insane person that he's insane?

There's no point in even trying, people. We're allll a part of the conspiracy.

[northernflame]

Peer reviewed? Hardly.

It's one thing to submit a paper to a reputable academic journal, which is then reviewed by qualified peers for conformity with scientific standards.

Quite another to submit a paper to a book that is 'edited' by a few like minded people who may or may not be even qualified to speak to the physics in the paper.

Not to mention the fact that, despite being older scholar, Steve Jones has never published a paper in a peer reviewed journal:


http://www.physics.byu.edu/research/energy/papers.aspx

And, to top it all off, Jones' own department had this to say about his 9/11 'theory':

"The university is aware that Professor Steven Jones's hypotheses and interpretations of evidence regarding the collapse of World Trade Center buildings are being questioned by a number of scholars and practitioners, including many of BYU's own faculty members. Professor Jones's department and college administrators are not convinced that his analyses and hypotheses have been submitted to relevant scientific venues that would ensure rigorous technical peer review." The Fulton College of Engineering and Technology department has also added, "The structural engineering faculty in the Fulton College of Engineering and Technology do not support the hypotheses of Professor Jones."

Nope, no conspiracy here, just an aging academic trying to make his mark during the twilight of what clearly has been a decidely mediocre academic career.

Were it not for the insult to those who died in the 9/11 terrorist attacks, his "theory" would be sad in an Arthur Miller "Death of A Salesman" kind of way. The reality of the situation, however, makes it absolutely nauseating.

[Kerplunk]

I kinda find all of this very interesting. Of course it could be that I am so bored at work that I'll read anything. Kinda good for a light read and a laugh. Now, although some points brought up in these studies MAY have value, I find it much harder to believe than the commonly held theories.

Actually, kind of reminds me of the stuff proving man has never been on the moon. Just enough scientific talk to make it believable, but not enough REAL evidence to completely throw the commonly held theory off course.