The office I work in used to be pretty bad for people chatting at cubicles. One of the problems was that the previous manager had an office that was a long way from the area where most of the noise tended to build. Another one was that he tended to sit in his office a lot and not really get out.
So when I was tasked with managing the office, I moved into a small office that is close to where the action was, and kept the problem people in that area so I could watch them more often. I took the quieter more independent people and moved them to the extremities (although surprisingly even they tend to be on the phone a lot they are just a lot quieter). I also try to make an effort to randomly get out and visit everyone to do spot checks on them. Although with a short staffed department it's not always easy as I still end up having to do a fair bit of work myself.
I still catch people on cell phones not working or on personal calls during work hours. As best I can I will ask them why they are on the phone about non work issues at that point in time. I know one guy I asked him how often he phones his wife at work at a much lower paying job....he said never. I asked him why it was okay for her to constantly phone him at his job which is the one that pays the bills in his family. He really had no answer for that. You can't deny people those important more emergency based calls....but it's difficult when you walk into a place where the culture has been to permit that type of activity and than you try to change 10+ years of bad habits that have developed. Which in the case of the office I work in...most people have been there for that long. I tell them at our meetings that they're all accountable to each other, and that their bonuses, and company share values are impacted when people don't do their work. So they owe it to each other to do their work in a timely and efficient manner. But it's cliquey, and you do run the risk of the different groups tying to fight each other.
My ex was like this. I had to text her constantly throughout the day, everyday. If I went 2 hours into the morning without texting her, she would assume something is wrong, that im no longer into her and get mad at me. If I take too long to reply to her texts, she gets mad. She always expected me to reply to all her texts right away. There were some days where I didnt want to exchange 5000 texts with her and she wouldnt undertstand. I just remember this one morning I was literally sitting there saying to myself "am I seriously having to explain myself?"
Im all for texting, but at work and non stop? I dont know how people can focus on their job and text every 30 seconds. Its a major distraction. On breaks and lunches sure, but outside of that? No thanks. Its just like when im at home, I dont want to be focusing on work.
Last edited by ChickenPho; 09-25-2014 at 02:15 PM.
You can't win this argument. Why do you wear shoes? Why do you not wear a swimsuit to the office? Because it's not appropriate within common societal norms. No shoes and swimsuits are OK on a beach but not in the office. Same logic for washing feet in an office washroom. Our office has a shower room for those that excercise during lunch hour. But if it didn't, I would definitely not be OK with sweaty people taking baths in the washroom sinks.
We are talking about a bathroom sink, not the office kitchen sink (no that would not be ok IMO). These sinks are the same sinks that have urine or fecal contaminated hands washed in them (god I hope) daily.
If (and I don't know to be honest) Muslims need to wash their feet before prayer what is your solution for them while at work?
__________________
Captain James P. DeCOSTE, CD, 18 Sep 1993
1) Using speakerphone for no specific reason. Especially to check voice mail.
2) Clipping your nails. Like seriously, are you f****** kidding me.
3) Listening to the radio. How hard is it to put in some god damn head phones.
Good thing they moved me back in to an office...
I also walk around without shoes on most of the time. Unless I'm going to the washroom, then there is enough piss on the floor to make me want to put my shoes on.
I actually prefer the white noise and "hustle and bustle" in a cube environment. My office is so sterile and dull...
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My ex was like this. I had to text her constantly throughout the day, everyday. If I went 2 hours into the morning without texting her, she would assume something is wrong, that im no longer into her and get mad at me. If I take too long to reply to her texts, she gets mad. She always expected me to reply to all her texts right away. There were some days where I didnt want to exchange 5000 texts with her and she wouldnt undertstand. I just remember this one morning I was literally sitting there saying to myself "am I seriously having to explain myself?"
Im all for texting, but at work and non stop? I dont know how people can focus on their job and text every 30 seconds. Its a major distraction. On breaks and lunches sure, but outside of that? No thanks. Its just like when im at home, I dont want to be focusing on work.
My friend's wife is like this... good job making her your ex, I don't know how the f he deals with that bat **** crazy woman.
...
If (and I don't know to be honest) Muslims need to wash their feet before prayer what is your solution for them while at work?
Why would I have to come up with the solution? If it is so important for someone to wash their feet at the office for religious reasons, they should come up with the agreeble solution and either pay to have it implemented or convince the company to pay for it. I do not believe that it is employer's obligation to accommodate adherence to various religious rituals at the office.
I do not believe that it is employer's obligation to accommodate adherence to various religious rituals at the office.
Religious belief is protected under the Alberta and Canadian Human Rights Acts. As such, employers do have to accommodate, within reason, the religious needs of their employees.
Because it appears you have the problem with them washing their feet in a bathroom sink.
If you (a generalized you, not you per se) have an issue with something, I believe it is on you to come up with an alternative to the issue.
Scenario 1: You, (a generalized you, not you per se) are the office manager and a person at the office comes to you asking for permission to wash feet at the washroom sink. You have to make a decision. Would you ask for an office vote or just allow him to wash his feet right away and face the consequences from people that are grossed out by this when they see it for the first time?
Scenario 2: You, (a generalized you, not you per se) are approached by a group of employees that are grossed out by someone washing their feet in the washroom sink. You have to react. Are you a) going to ask the individual to stop; or b) going to come up with and pay for an individually designed solution to accommodate his request to wash his feet?
Scenario 1: You, (a generalized you, not you per se) are the office manager and a person at the office comes to you asking for permission to wash feet at the washroom sink. You have to make a decision. Would you ask for an office vote or just allow him to wash his feet right away and face the consequences from people that are grossed out by this when they see it for the first time?
Scenario 2: You, (a generalized you, not you per se) are approached by a group of employeers that re grossed out by someone washing their feet in the washroom sink. You have to react. Are you a) going to ask the individual to stop; or b) going to come up with and pay for an individually designed solution to accommodate his request to wash his feet?
I would tell them I am ok with #1 and ask them if they were comfortable with discussing this with the office in general. That being said we don't have an office washroom, we have one that services our area of the building.
Again, it is feet that are going into a bathroom sink. I honestly don't see what the fuss is with feet being washed in a sink that also washs fecal and urine covered hands.
__________________
Captain James P. DeCOSTE, CD, 18 Sep 1993
If the person isnt making a mess whats the problem with them washing their feet. Believe it or not dirtier things go on in bathroom than foot washing. Also offices aren't a democracy where people vote on other peoples' religious freedoms.
Scenario 1: You, (a generalized you, not you per se) are the office manager and a person at the office comes to you asking for permission to wash feet at the washroom sink. You have to make a decision. Would you ask for an office vote or just allow him to wash his feet right away and face the consequences from people that are grossed out by this when they see it for the first time?
Scenario 2: You, (a generalized you, not you per se) are approached by a group of employees that are grossed out by someone washing their feet in the washroom sink. You have to react. Are you a) going to ask the individual to stop; or b) going to come up with and pay for an individually designed solution to accommodate his request to wash his feet?
I remember this is a super fine line but with huge wiggle room for employee and hands tied for business.
SPOILER: Wall of text.
Spoiler!
To what extent is accommodation required?
The Supreme Court of Canada has ruled that employers and service providers have a legal duty to take reasonable steps to accommodate individual needs to the point of undue hardship. To substantiate a claim of undue hardship, an employer or service provider must show that they would experience more than a minor inconvenience. In many cases, accommodation measures are simple and affordable and do not create undue hardship.
What is undue hardship?
Undue hardship occurs if accommodation would create onerous conditions for an employer or service provider, for example, intolerable financial costs or serious disruption to business. An employer or service provider must make considerable effort to find an appropriate accommodation for an employee. Some hardship may be necessary in making an accommodation; only when there is 'undue' hardship can the employer or service provider claim that they have tried all the accommodations available. To determine if undue hardship would occur, the employer or service provider should review factors such as:
Financial costs-Financial costs must be substantial in order to be found to cause undue hardship. They must be so significant that they would substantially affect productivity or efficiency of the employer or service provider responsible for the accommodation. Accommodation measures could result in lost revenue, which should be taken into account when assessing undue hardship. However, if lost revenue due to accommodation would be offset by increased productivity, tax exemptions, grants, subsidies or other gains, then undue hardship may not be a factor. Financial costs do not include the expense of complying with other legislation or regulations, such as building codes (for example, providing wheelchair accessible washrooms or separate washroom facilities for men and women).
Size and resources of the employer or service provider- The cost of modifying premises or equipment and the ability to amortize such costs will be taken into consideration when assessing if there is undue hardship. The larger the operation, the more likely it is that it can afford to support a wider range of accommodations without undue hardship.
Disruption of operations-The extent to which the inconvenience would prevent the employer or service provider from carrying out essential business will be a factor when assessing undue hardship. For example, modifying a workspace in a way that substantially interferes with workflow may be considered too disruptive to the workplace. Also where there is no productive work available to offer to the employee, accommodation may be an undue hardship.
Morale problems of other employees brought about by the accommodation-Morale problems could be due to the negative impact of increased workload on other employees and a requirement to work too much overtime. If other employees begin to experience sleep difficulties or other health issues brought about by the accommodation of a particular employee, then the accommodation may be an undue hardship.
Substantial interference with the rights of other individuals or groups-A proposed accommodation should not interfere significantly with the rights of others or discriminate against them. For example, a substantial departure from the terms of a collective agreement could be a serious concern to other employees. However, the objections of other employees must be based on well-grounded concerns that their rights will be affected.
Interchangeability of work force and facilities-Whether an employer or service provider could relocate employees to other positions on a temporary or permanent basis is a factor in determining undue hardship. This may be easier for a larger company.
Health and safety concerns-Where safety is a concern, consider the level of risk and who bears that risk. For example, consider if the accommodation would violate health and safety regulations. There would be an undue hardship if accommodation sacrificed safety for either the employee or others. If there is an issue of drug or alcohol dependency, please see the Commission's information sheet Drug and alcohol dependencies in Alberta workplaces.
I don't think you can stop the guy from washing his feet under any of the 7 criteria. Any attempts to argue the criteria are likely all a stretch I think.
I remember this is a super fine line but with huge wiggle room for employee and hands tied for business.
...
To what extent is accommodation required?...
What is undue hardship?
You've got it. What might be a negligible expense for Imperial Oil could be an unreasonably large expense to a small business owner. The solutions to religious ritual accommodation requests are usually found in a way that addresses concerns of all parties, not just worshipers', who should have their fair share of input into the comfortable for all solution rather than just a demand to be accommodated an any cost and regardless of what others might think of it.
Somebody washing their feet is gross? Assuming this person is washing their feet prior to prayer, then I'm guessing they wash their feet approximately a #### load of times per day. Their feet are probably cleaner than your hands.
At least their feet aren't occasionally grazing their faces, maybe taking a detour to picking a nagging booger while taking a trip to scratch their chin. Touching door handles, phones, food, other peoples disgusting hands, or even the disgusting sink handles/toilet flushers.
You could probably eat off this person's feet, they clean them so much. The toe-knuckle hair likely gets a good shampooing more frequently than my entire leg does. And no, watching the water trickle down your body and sift through the jungle planted on your legs doesn't count for "washing" but I don't want to bend over, dammit!
No, you know what's really gross here? Hands. Hands are revolting. Just think of everything you do with your hands. The places they go in, on, around, under, through, up, down, sideways. Sick. It's hands that are the real problem. I'm sick of seeing people wave their bony, germ-infested digits in the air like they just do not have any regard for caring.
You know what I like? Shoes that don't smell, and people that take personal hygiene seriously. When was the last time you actually sat down and washed your feet? This person hauls their, what I can only guess is an equally clean, ass up on the counter and goes to town on their toes as if God himself will strike them down if there's even a trace of sin jammed up in there. Multiple times a day! I don't even do that to my own balls. I wash them once a day and still think it's good enough to put into another person's body, and we all know that at the end of the day, it is far from a fresh spring meadow down there.
Can't a man just clean his feet in a bathroom in peace? I think I might just clean mine now.
Last edited by Yasa; 09-25-2014 at 03:35 PM.
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Somebody washing their feet is gross? Assuming this person is washing their feet prior to prayer, then I'm guessing they wash their feet approximately a #### load of times per day. Their feet are probably cleaner than your hands.
At least their feet aren't occasionally grazing their faces, maybe taking a detour to picking a nagging booger while taking a trip to scratch their chin. Touching door handles, phones, food, other peoples disgusting hands, or even the disgusting sink handles/toilet flushers.
You could probably eat off this person's feet, they clean them so much. The toe-knuckle hair likely gets a good shampooing more frequently than my entire leg does. And no, watching the water trickle down your body and sift through the jungle planted on your legs doesn't count for "washing" but I don't want to bend over, dammit!
No, you know what's really gross here? Hands. Hands are revolting. Just think of everything you do with your hands. The places they go in, on, around, under, through, up, down, sideways. Sick. It's hands that are the real problem. I'm sick of seeing people wave their bony, germ-infested digits in the air like they just do not have any regard for caring.
You know what I like? Shoes that don't smell, and people that take personal hygiene seriously. When was the last time you actually sat down and washed your feet? This person hauls their, what I can only guess is an equally clean, ass up on the counter and goes to town on their toes as if God himself will strike them down if there's even a trace of sin jammed up in there. Multiple times a day! I don't even do that to my own balls. I wash them once a day and still think it's good enough to put into another person's body, and we all know that at the end of the day, it is far from a fresh spring meadow down there.
Can't a man just clean his feet in a bathroom in peace? I think I might just clean mine now.
out of thanks
__________________
Captain James P. DeCOSTE, CD, 18 Sep 1993
Corporal Jean-Marc H. BECHARD, 6 Aug 1993
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