Toronto is no good

[Headshot]

Originally Posted by TKB

The problem with Toronto isn't Bernier, its the rest of the team. He looked great last year while being shelled night after night. Like was mentioned above, Toronto was badly outshot every game and that can only last so long until it catches up to you.

Not saying Bernier was a problem; but he has more to prove. I agree with you though.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by The Fonz

Congratulations Nylander, on playing better than a guy who has yet to even play a pre-season game.

This should go without saying.

But speaking of Nylander, I was surprised to see when I checked is hockeydb page just now how little elite level hockey he has played before last year: Only 8 games in Sweden Div. 1 in 2012–13, and then 35 games last year followed by 22 in the Elitserien (which I see is now called the "Swedish Hockey League").

I would think that the best course of action for him would probably be to spend either a full year back in the SEL or in the CHL to help him acclimate.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

Poor Flames fans. You really believe the Leafs are at par talent wise with Buffalo and yourselves.

No, but since you are perhaps the single most deluded fan in the history of Toronto (and that says a lot), or a masterful troll, I can certainly see why you feel the need to resort to knocking down strawmen to try and deflect attention away from the questions you are ignoring.

And the fact that you are completely unable to explain why you feel Toronto has greater talent than Montreal is telling.

[Erick Estrada]

I think the Leafs could make the playoffs because it's the Eastern Conference where mediocrity rules. The Sabres are the only team I feel comfortable saying they have no chance but after that it's a coin flip with all these bad teams fighting for the last 2 or 3 spots. I feel the Flames have no chance at making the playoffs this year but if they switched to the Eastern conference I would give them a chance. As just not having to spend 18 games of the season playing the Ducks, Kings, Sharks would boost their point totals.

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by Headshot

More depth. The leafs have a first line + Kadri. And..? The Canadians have A first line as well as depth.

They also have a much better defensive core.

Price vs Bernier is no contest.

And what do the Habs have? The Leafs have better centres and that's saying something.
The Leafs second line this season is projected to be Kadri/JVR. That'll be a better second line than the Habs have.

Kessel had 20 more points than Montreal's leading scorer last season.

And actually, Price may be more proven, But Bernier was close to Price last season. .923 save% despite facing by far the most shots in the NHL.

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

Depth? Colton Orr? David Booth? Holland? Frattin?

The Leafs aren't horrible, but I really think you're overestimating some of the 'talent' on the team. I agree that it will be a dogfight to see who makes the playoffs in the East. There are many teams who have strengths and weaknesses, the Leafs are no different.

They are not 'easily' 4th in the East, not in terms of talent or otherwise.

The Leafs could be 4th, they could also miss the playoffs quite easily. I think you're setting yourself up for disappointment this season with some of the lofty expectations you hold of your team and it's players.

Santoneli, Booth, Winnik, Komorov is very good depth as bottom 6 forwards and much improved over last season. Colton Orr is done. He won't play a game this season. Holland is a really nice young player with top 6 potential.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

Santoneli, Booth, Winnik, Komorov is very good depth as bottom 6 forwards and much improved over last season.

You may think that's great, but really those types of players are a dime a dozen around the league. If you're happy the depth has improved since last season that's great, but it hasn't improved enough to the point where it's something that clearly gives your team an advantage over many other teams the Leafs will be competing with this year.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Even if they make the playoffs, they'll be a first round exit.

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

You may think that's great, but really those types of players are a dime a dozen around the league. If you're happy the depth has improved since last season that's great, but it hasn't improved enough to the point where it's something that clearly gives your team an advantage over many other teams the Leafs will be competing with this year.

I think you simply play better defense, and the Leafs get a top 4 spot.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

I think you simply play better defense, and the Leafs get a top 4 spot.

You make it sound pretty easy.

They gave up more shots than any other team per game last season. Their defense has to be better (can it?) and the forwards have to help out. I have my doubts either will happen this season.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

I think you simply play better defense, and the Leafs get a top 4 spot.

Great.

Put them up against: Pittsburgh/Philadelphia/Boston/Detroit

Or:

LA/St. Louis/Chicago/Anaheim/SJ/Colorado or hell, Minnesota

Maybe just a few more games you get to watch Dion have that lost look in his eyes while he bobbles the puck on his own blueline before digging it out of his own net.

[Resolute 14]

Bigtuna is somewhat correct with that last comment, but not likely in the way he intends.

There is no such thing as a "top four spot" as it relates to the conference standings and playoffs any longer. So the implied argument that Toronto is good enough to land home ice in the playoffs depends on their ability to finish ahead of TWO of Boston, Montreal and Tampa Bay. Frankly, I'd be surprised if they finish ahead of one of them.

But, with better defence, the Leafs would have a shot at eeking past Detroit for 4th in the Atlantic. So in that respect, the words are accurate.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

I think you simply play better defense, and the Leafs get a top 4 spot.

So play the same core, likely with about the same minutes and expect better results?


Ok

[clancy]

The biggest issue with Toronto is they have 25% of their salary tied up in two guys long term that could, at the very best, be described as "strange". They are certainly not the type of leaders that championship teams have had in the past.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

I think you simply play better defense, and the Leafs get a top 4 spot.

Kind of reminds me of the Flames under Brent Sutter. One year the team scores lots of goals and plays sloppy defensively and they just miss out on the playoffs. The next year the team plays much better defense and the goal scoring runs dry and they just miss out on the playoffs. The one dimensional forwards were only effective playing one way for the Flames. I feel the Leafs have a lot of one dimensional forwards much like the Flames did and I'm not sure how guys like Kadri and Kessel will buy into a defensive scheme as it seems like they generate their offense by virtue of a free wheeling style of game.

[Teh_Bandwagoner]

Originally Posted by Red John

Better fans as well.

Whoa whoa whoa. Let's not get carried away here now.

[Headshot]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

And what do the Habs have? The Leafs have better centres and that's saying something.
The Leafs second line this season is projected to be Kadri/JVR. That'll be a better second line than the Habs have.

Kessel had 20 more points than Montreal's leading scorer last season.

And actually, Price may be more proven, But Bernier was close to Price last season. .923 save% despite facing by far the most shots in the NHL.

I'd say the Habs have better centres.

But hey, let's say the leafs are better forward wise. They are still blown out of the water in the other positions.

Defence is easy. Phaneuf is a number 3 defenceman at best. The Habs have Subban, Makarov.. Etc.

And honestly don't even try to compare Bernier to Price. One season lol. ONE. That's all Bernier has proven to be capable of playing well in at this point.

Lastly, Points Arn't everything that matters! Defence and leadership do just as equally. The leafs have none of the last 2.

[#-3]

Originally Posted by Headshot

I'd say the Habs have better centres.

But hey, let's say the leafs are better forward wise. They are still blown out of the water in the other positions.

Defence is easy. Phaneuf is a number 3 defenceman at best. The Habs have Subban, Gorges, Makarov.. Etc.

And honestly don't even try to compare Bernier to Price. One season lol. ONE. That's all Bernier has proven to be capable of playing well in at this point.

Lastly, Points Arn't everything that matters! Defence and leadership do just as equally. The leafs have none of the last 2.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=725090

[Headshot]

Originally Posted by #-3

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=725090

My bad. Fixed

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by Headshot

I'd say the Habs have better centres.

But hey, let's say the leafs are better forward wise. They are still blown out of the water in the other positions.

Defence is easy. Phaneuf is a number 3 defenceman at best. The Habs have Subban, Makarov.. Etc.

And honestly don't even try to compare Bernier to Price. One season lol. ONE. That's all Bernier has proven to be capable of playing well in at this point.

Lastly, Points Arn't everything that matters! Defence and leadership do just as equally. The leafs have none of the last 2.

Then why don't they play better then Bozak and Kadri?

And Phaneuf a #3 lol. Is Josh Gorges, apparently of the Habs, better than Phaneuf too?