YLYL Thread and other things...

[Bigtime]

Originally Posted by SebC

I thought we were getting rid of the hot women gifs.

That's simply a woman expressing her disgust through facial expressions.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by RyZ

That is the creed of the internet social justice warrior. A minority banging a loud drum.

Sad that the mods fell for it.

You could always go back to the question that was never really answered from the other thread. I think White Tiger was the only one who even attempted it.

What value did the thread bring to CP?

Regardless of a Minority banging a drum (47% believed changed was required or 75% wanted to keep the thread in some way) there was never a good articulation of what value the thread brought. The best was in consolidates attractive women pictures in one place so I don't have to look. So the side that wanted to keep the thread did a poor job at articulating the value of the thread compared to those who identified the cost of having it.

The discussion in that thread was really an arguement over wether the cost of having the thread was real and not did the benefit outweight the cost.

[jammies]

Originally Posted by V

I'm hurt jammies. Truly and deeply hurt.

I thought you gave up on the mind-destroying cult of the Oilers? Which is a decision, by the way, that all right-thinking folk heartily applaud.

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by BlackArcher101

And this last page is a great example of why I didn't bother posting my viewpoint in the discussion thread. If you held the other viewpoint, you were raked over the coals and vilified publicly with replies to you calling your viewpoint ignorant, out to lunch or just not getting it, while the same posters demanded respect for their viewpoint. Wonder how many other people felt the same way? I'm betting quite a few based on the difference between the poll and posts.

Both sides are trying to get 100% agreement to their own viewpoint/OPINION. That will never happen and some people should just back away or type as if they were speaking publicly.

This board is just shameful. We are pushing for inclusiveness/equality, yet attacking anyone who is of a differing opinion.

I don't believe that both sides (or all people I guess is a better qualifier) are trying to get 100% agreement. In the post where I tried to bring you into the argument I expressly said I want more opinion on both the ideas contained within the thread, and my own ideas.

My strongest arguments have been focused on a few of the more ridiculous and reductive arguments. Which is more about positions people aren't really defending, or are just being petty and nonsensical. Others I have admitted, maybe be right, may be wrong. It's also why I declined to post in the other thread. While I have defended the 'pro feminism' side here fairly strongly, it's only because of the tone of the arguments. My original post idea, and views in general, are far closer to the middle, and open to people who see a more traditional view of sexuality and men and women.

Now don't get me wrong, I totally get why a person, especially a female would not want to wade into this mess. But isn't that the whole point of taking on sexism to begin with? To make it easier for people to express their opinions without fear of being shouted down? I guess if I'm being pushed into the 'pro feminism' side here, it's because a lot of the arguments for the other side are silly and reductive, and a lot of the real issues regarding sexuality and sexism aren't being discussed.

There are some real issues here to discuss, and I'm all for discussing them, and agreeing to disagree. I'm for a lot more opinions on them. The ones I have argued against strongly though, aren't those. Those have simply become 'they locked our thread, get them!' That I can't support.

[Daradon]

To add: I've left the conversation on Sedin Sisters and language like that open and my views open to discussion, only saying why I feel it is worse. Please tell me if you don't think so, but WHY you don't think so. I've openly admitted that there are good points about censorship on 'the other side'. I've said, sexuality is always going to be a complex issue and I didn't even know where I stand there.

It's the ridiculous and nonsensical attacks about EG's avatar that I've argued strongly against. Because she hasn't been a hypocrite, and the arguments against it are simply attacks to 'get back' at her or others that may agree with her. They are poorly argued arguments that not only take away from the real issues on both sides, but are vengeful in nature.

Not only is that sexist, it's bullying a member. I'll stick up for her.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Apropos:

http://www.theguardian.com/women-in-...r-voice-louder

@EmWatson: Wonderful men out there. I'm launching a campaign - #heforshe. Support the women in ur lives and sign up here now! ❤️ http://t.co/EXa64CncgP

[JiriHrdina]

A reminder: If you find a thread, post or avatar offensive report it.
But only do so if it ACTUALLY offends you, not to prove some point you may have about us removing the thread in question.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by RyZ

That is the creed of the internet social justice warrior. A minority banging a loud drum.

Sad that the mods fell for it.

Maybe engage in some constructive discourse or stay out of the conversation if you have nothing but ad hominem drivel to add.

[jammies]

People are going to argue on the internet - that's not being close-minded or exclusive, that's mostly the point of a message board, really. If you can't coherently defend your opinions, then the solution is not to cry that you're being picked on, but to make stronger arguments or possibly, just maybe - MAYBE - change your opinion to something more defensible.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

A reminder: If you find a thread, post or avatar offensive report it.
But only do so if it ACTUALLY offends you, not to prove some point you may have about us removing the thread in question.

Thats going to be tough. The mods should probably just take a few days off and let people blow off steam or something.

The actual, honest outrage doesnt exist, this is just the post-scolding temper tantrum, we just have to let it blow over before sending people to bed without dinner.

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by GGG

You could always go back to the question that was never really answered from the other thread. I think White Tiger was the only one who even attempted it.

What value did the thread bring to CP?

Regardless of a Minority banging a drum (47% believed changed was required or 75% wanted to keep the thread in some way) there was never a good articulation of what value the thread brought. The best was in consolidates attractive women pictures in one place so I don't have to look. So the side that wanted to keep the thread did a poor job at articulating the value of the thread compared to those who identified the cost of having it.

The discussion in that thread was really an arguement over wether the cost of having the thread was real and not did the benefit outweight the cost.

Besides thanking your post, I want to use it to give a thumbs up to White Tiger BTW.

While he was one of the biggest posters in that thread, (and respectful while posting, may I add) he was also open to the discussion about it being closed and very open to arguments on both sides.

It's pleasantly ironic that someone who loved the thread so much, was also very open to the argument against it and why it may be hurtful. And he showed class and argued various points very well and kindly.

Maybe if we were all more like him, on both sides, this wouldn't be so difficult.

Regardless, kudos to you White Tiger!

[-TC-]

Originally Posted by Daradon

It's the ridiculous and nonsensical attacks about EG's avatar that I've argued strongly against. Because she hasn't been a hypocrite, and the arguments against it are simply attacks to 'get back' at her or others that may agree with her. They are poorly argued arguments that not only take away from the real issues on both sides, but are vengeful in nature...

Not only is this 'factually incorrect' but it's hypocritical too... You attack the poster and ignore the argument, just like you accused others of doing.

You have yet to build any sort of argument against her hypocrisy other than 'you are wrong and you are petty'. Then you layered on the 'vengeful' bit just to give it some extra sauce.

You come across as an articulate and intelligent person, so I'm a bit confused. Perhaps you've let your emotions get in the way of your good judgement.

Perhaps you should go back and read exactly what I wrote, and rethink your position.

[photon]

Originally Posted by Locke

Thats going to be tough. The mods should probably just take a few days off and let people blow off steam or something.

That and we haven't actually updated the guidelines with any specifics yet, so reporting is fine but might not be considered or dealt with until then.

For things like the 4-5 year old threads mentioned a bit back, we're not going to go through the history of millions of posts to make sure they all comply with every change in rules or policy (not that that was an expectation, just saying).

[getbak]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

A reminder: If you find a thread, post or avatar offensive report it.
But only do so if it ACTUALLY offends you, not to prove some point you may have about us removing the thread in question.

I find your signature offensive because it is a lie. Who does have Calgary's best burger? Why won't you tell me?

[photon]

Originally Posted by troutman

@EmWatson: Wonderful men out there. I'm launching a campaign - #heforshe. Support the women in ur lives and sign up here now! ❤️ http://t.co/EXa64CncgP

Hermione said it, I believe it, that settles it.

[dissentowner]

People who are griping that they deleted a thread that was dedicated to oggling women as sex objects need to remember something important, this is not your hockey forum. You get the priveledge of posting on here but did you pay a membership fee to do so? Was that a no? Then shut it and be happy you have a cool place to come discuss hockey and even other things. This not some democratic state here, it is a privately owned board that can set the rules and make decisions like not wanting a sexist thread that will downgrade the reputation of the site and detract from female members or other members who may feel insulted by that. Finally, there are a million free sites where you can see all the girls you want, doing whatever you want in some cases. I don't see why deleting that thread was a big deal at all.

[Papi34]

Just making sure my avatar still works

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by Daradon

Firefly already answered it above, but I meant the same thing.

Eastern Girl's concerns weren't at the pictures themselves, on the attitudes surrounding them. Therefore, focusing on her avatar is completely missing the point.

And, as I also mentioned, there are still also 'sexy' avatars on the board anyway. So you're missing the spirit of the point, and the literal point as well. You say your fighting for equal treatment, but you've missed it on the spirit and the literal.

And I'm not entirely against what your saying about censorship, or treating everyone equally, I think there are some points to explore there. But calling her a hypocrite is incorrect, factually, and in spirit, and doesn't serve any of the points you're trying to make.

Originally Posted by -TC-

Not only is this 'factually incorrect' but it's hypocritical too..

You have yet to build any sort of argument against her hypocrisy other than 'you are wrong and you are petty'. Then you layered on the 'vengeful' bit just to give it some extra sauce.

You come across as an articulate and intelligent person, so I'm a bit confused. Perhaps you've let your emotions get in the way of your good judgement.

Perhaps you should go back and read exactly what I wrote, and rethink your position.

Either you missed the argument I made in that post, or you disagree for some reason I'll never get. But I did outline it above, and I'll repeat it now.

The fact is she literally isn't a hypocrite because avatars weren't banned.

She isn't a hypocrite in spirit because she wasn't arguing about sexy pictures to begin with, only the spirit of sexism in which a lot of them were being posted or were surrounded by.

I don't know how else to put it. Calling her a hypocrite for her avatar is factually incorrect, because she isn't, for the reasons above.

So therefore attacking her for her avatar is reductive and pointless, and really just ignoring the issues. As well, it just seems petty.

If you can tell me where you believe my disconnect is, I'll listen. But if your really just going to say the same thing over and over again, I obviously can't comment. Maybe I missed one of your arguments. If I did, tell me now, I'll listen and comment if applicable. I've outlined the one I think you missed on my side.

As well, and I'm really bending backwards here, you can take issue with her arguments, and her position. I think that's what you are trying to say here. That's fine. I'll disagree, but I won't call it out so strongly.

But you are using the word hypocrite unfairly and incorrectly. That's my (and several others) problem here.

[-TC-]

A question for the Moderators:

It seems that this situation has brought forward some opinions and attitudes that weren't so readily apparent.

Would it make sense to have an open dialogue about what the members would like the forum to be/become?

There seems to be a lot of strong positions...

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by -TC-

A question for the Moderators:

It seems that this situation has brought forward some opinions and attitudes that weren't so readily apparent.

Would it make sense to have an open dialogue about what the members would like the forum to be/become?

There seems to be a lot of strong positions...

We had a whole thread about that.

The moderators decided they want a more open and inclusive forum, the explanation of which is in this very thread.

Feel free to start an open dialogue on what you want the forum to be/become.

Edit: I am not a mod, I just play one on tv.