YLYL Thread and other things...

[Locke]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Well that'd be pretty much impossible to do since the Sun operates with zero professionalism to begin with.

Come on, we just had Randy Sportak on here not long ago because of slag like this.

Fight for one cause and then turn around and perpetuate the exact same thing on another?

[Locke]

Originally Posted by BlackArcher101

Now, if the decision has been made to remove the thread because it doesn't speak for CP's identity properly, are we going to weed out all others? Specifically these, which is just a start. All should be considered worse than this sedin sisters argument.

http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?t=73919
http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?t=90884
http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?t=90940
http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?t=87217
http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?t=57980
http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?t=73838

Actually the 'Hottie Drafts' were started by a woman and ergo are deemed acceptable.

[Tiger]

Originally Posted by FireFly

The conversation was about the language used in the thread, not the pictures themselves. The complaint was about the language being used around the site, not the pictures. I don't believe EG ever complained about the pictures themselves, it was ONLY EVER about the language.

so hypothetically if the thread restarted with no comments that would be fine?

[Burninator]

Originally Posted by ExiledFlamesFan

Untrue. A couple posters even did a forensic Melnyk style review of the thread and found the number of misogynistic comments in ylyl to be so minimal they'd be considered statistically irrelevant.

They searched for a couple words. Not exactly CSI level there. You can say offensive things without using deplorable words. For example this "forensic review" didn't mention Barbeque calling someone's wife mediocre. It wouldn't have picked up a poster saying they would only sleep with Jennifer Lawrence if they were drunk and it was the end of the night.

[ExiledFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by Burninator

They searched for a couple words. Not exactly CSI level there. You can say offensive things without using deplorable words. For example this "forensic review" didn't mention Barbeque calling someone's wife mediocre. It wouldn't have picked up a poster saying they would only sleep with Jennifer Lawrence if they were drunk and it was the end of the night.

Barbeque was ostracised (rightly so) for his comments for multiple pages.

[Cole436]

I think one thing that's being missed here is that we're actually being given a space to discuss this and be included in the conversation, whether you agree with the decision or not. On a site like HF there would be only their law and any discussion around it leads to infractions, or banning.

So try being a little more grateful of what's available here.

[Burninator]

Originally Posted by ExiledFlamesFan

Barbeque was ostracised (rightly so) for his comments for multiple pages.

As he should have. He also got a handful of thanks for his post. Point still stands that the number of comments weren't "statistically irrelevant."

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by Iceman57

Even our city's newspaper has a page dedicated to displaying a different female model each day and i don't believe that it takes any professionalism away from the establishment itself.

[FireFly]

Originally Posted by Iceman57

Lately i had become a regular contributor to the thread and other then the occasional "wow" or "yes please" i honestly can't recall of any truly derogatory remarks that were posted in the YLYL thread.

Just because you can't recall them, doesn't mean they weren't there.

Now throughout the rest of CP, i cant make that same claim but i fail to see the relation between policing the entire forum to deleting the YLYL thread.

Just because you fail to see the relation, doesn't mean it isn't there.

Although i do support the practice of addressing the sexism issue as someone has already pointed out to the act if a female was reference in a post, then often is the case the question of "pic?" soon followed which was never necessary but in my opinion, i just see it all as a fool's errand to think one can truly effect change to a person hiding behind a keyboard on the internet.

So was the end of slavery, women's suffrage, etc. Just because things are 'fool's errands' doesn't make them unworthy causes. Quite frankly, if this encourages some of the more sexist posters out there to find other places to post, that's fantastic. They can go find other guys just like them where they can talk about whether or not a woman is bangable and express their likelihood of fapping there.

The existence of the thread encouraged the comments of '5/10 would not bang' in other threads as those types of comments were allowed in the thread. The question of 'pics?' happens because the thread encourages the men on this site look at women as objects to viewed only and who cares what they say? The thread encouraged the locker-room type feel that this site has had for a while because hey, this site has a whole thread dedicated to talking about half naked women like you'd find in locker rooms or other male-only places.

Even our city's newspaper has a page dedicated to displaying a different female model each day and i don't believe that it takes any professionalism away from the establishment itself.

Even our Calgary Sun at least talks about the woman's interests and doesn't have a caption under it that reads 'I'll be in my bunk.' And has been said before, it's still the least reputable paper in the city.

[Coys1882]

Tinordi and Rubecube - are you guys familiar with a meme containing a picture of the Dude?

[ExiledFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by Burninator

As he should have. He also got a handful of thanks for his post. Point still stands that the number of comments weren't "statistically irrelevant."

No it doesn't. If anything you've proved my point that the thread was self regulated and barbeque was not allowed to get away with hurtful mean comments.

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by BlackArcher101

Now, if the decision has been made to remove the thread because it doesn't speak for CP's identity properly, are we going to weed out all others? Specifically these, which is just a start. All should be considered worse than this sedin sisters argument.

http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?t=73919
http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?t=90884
http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?t=90940
http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?t=87217
http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?t=57980
http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?t=73838

This is where it's going to get really interesting, because there are obviously some double standards here. And you're the perfect person to point them out.

The reason I find the 'Sedin Sisters' more troubling than the pics threads is because in the pics thread, anyone who ventured into them knew what they were getting into. They were based around sexuality, so there was going to be a certain amount of lewdness, rating, etc. in them. Which was the whole point to begin with.

However, the 'Sedin Sisters' example is more problematic to me because it's an example of the pervasiveness of sexism in the culture at large. There's always going to be nudie pics, and there's always going to be sexual rating. Male and Female. Which gets even more complicated when you include homosexuality because can you accuse a lesbian of making a sexist sexual comment? I really don't know. So as long as they're in their proper places, it's at least something we can limit to those areas, and decide if we want to join or not. Sex is always going to be complicated and contentious. As long as it's not dangerous, or overly mean, that may be all we can ask for.

But marginalizing women based on attributes like strength and toughness (or ability at science or whatever) in the board or society as a whole, is where the real problems begin. That's when it becomes easy to accept women should make less, because hey, it's just biology that they will end up going on maternity leave, and end up being worth less to the company.

So that's why I find one more dangerous than the other.

But being a guy I admit, my opinion may not count to a hill of beans.

However, also to that, it shows that people's definitions of sexism are going to be very different, and even more importantly WOMEN'S definitions of what is sexist is going to be very different. That was the crux of the post I wanted to write weeks ago on the initial discussion, but never got around to. I've met women with attitudes more feminist than mine, and ones with attitudes less feminist than mine. I could actually write some very funny anecdotes on the issue.

So that's why we need more women to speak up, cause yeah, this is getting pretty complicated.

[-TC-]

Originally Posted by Daradon

Wow, can you guys stop focusing on EG's avatar? .

No.

If she wants the high ground then she should demonstrate that she deserves it.

By continuing to have the avatar it undermines her argument and makes her a hypocrite.

The particular knife she's chosen to wield is sharpened on both sides you see, it cuts both ways.

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by -TC-

No.

If she wants the high ground then she should demonstrate that she deserves it.

By continuing to have the avatar it undermines her argument and makes her a hypocrite.

The particular knife she's chosen to wield is sharpened on both sides you see, it cuts both ways.

I've already explained why that statement is factually incorrect. She is not a hypocrite, you guys are misunderstanding. I'm not going to repeat myself. Either you've already read my posts which came after what you quoted and disagree, or haven't read them yet. Either way, there is no reason to repeat my arguments.

[ResAlien]

Originally Posted by Daradon

I've already explained why that statement is factually incorrect. She is not a hypocrite, you guys are misunderstanding. I'm not going to repeat myself. Either you've already read my posts which came after what you quoted and disagree, or haven't read them yet. Either way, there is no reason to repeat my arguments.

Don't get riled up just enjoy the willful ignorance. It's fascinating to watch, kind of like spending the day at the zoo.

[Daradon]

Actually I'm just trying to be fair, I don't want anyone to think I abandoned an argument or couldn't support my ideas.

But I will definitely take your words into consideration if I feel my heart rate go up.

[ExiledFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by ResAlien

Don't get riled up just enjoy the willful ignorance. It's fascinating to watch, kind of like spending the day at the zoo.

I find this post very offensive

[Locke]

Originally Posted by ExiledFlamesFan

I find this post very offensive

Ok, ok, we get it. You're offended.

[woob]

Wow. I think our focus needs to be less on this issue at hand and more on treating each other with respect and courtesy. The amount of condescending talk, smug replies, and complete dismissal of people's words - FROM BOTH SIDES - is astounding.

(Note: By making this statement, I am not at all saying I am innocent of the above, but I do try my best to be)

[Tinordi]

It's almost like many posters are trying not to understand in order to avoid confronting their own behavior. The backflips we'll go to to avoid any type of self-reflection is certainly one of the most depressing facets of the human condition.