Toronto is no good

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

OI find it funny how Calgary has a terrific future but Toronto doesn't. Did I miss the fact the Leafs are old with no young talent?

Prospect base lacks skill. Nylander has immense upside but after that you are into guys like Gauthier and Percy - who aren't going to be impact players.

Frankly I don't see much decent in Toronto's system.

[Francis's Hairpiece]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

LOL. Patrick Kane is easily one of the best hockey players in the world.

Settle down, leafs fan. Ever hear of Evander Kane?

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Prospect base lacks skill. Nylander has immense upside but after that you are into guys like Gauthier and Percy - who aren't going to be impact players.

Frankly I don't see much decent in Toronto's system.

It's not just about prospects. Rielly is 20, Gardiner, 24, Kessel, 26. JVR 25, Bernier 26, Kadri 23. There's a lot of youth on that team not "Prospects" but are at, or yet to hit their primes.

Calgary simply isn't close to the Leafs in talent.

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by Francis's Hairpiece

Settle down, leafs fan. Ever hear of Evander Kane?

Evander Kane is like Kessel? Evander Kane isn't even as good as JVR.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

It's not just about prospects. Rielly is 20, Gardiner, 24, Kessel, 26. JVR 25, Bernier 26, Kadri 23. There's a lot of youth on that team not "Prospects" but are at, or yet to hit their primes.

Calgary simply isn't close to the Leafs in talent.

Glug glug.
We get it - you are a Leafs fan. At least have the self awareness that you are biased towards your own team. I like Reilly and some of those other pieces, but neither the Flames nor the Leafs have shown that they have enough talent in the last few years.
Being smug about a team that hasn't done squat in a decade is just silly.

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Glug glug.
We get it - you are a Leafs fan. At least have the self awareness that you are biased towards your own team. I like Reilly and some of those other pieces, but neither the Flames nor the Leafs have shown that they have enough talent in the last few years.
Being smug about a team that hasn't done squat in a decade is just silly.

I really care less about the "Last Decade". The Leafs are so far ahead of the Flames it's silly to claim anything else.

[Caged Great]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

OI find it funny how Calgary has a terrific future but Toronto doesn't. Did I miss the fact the Leafs are old with no young talent?

Toronto's organizational build is strange. They have some good players, but no actual great ones. They are too good to draft actual star talent but too bad to actually compete. The lack of game breaking talent will hold them back.

If you look at cup winners recently they have legit stars like Kane Toews Doughty Quick Crosby Malkin Zetterberg Datsyuk Thomas Chara. I don't see any of the current leaf guys both in the prospect pool and the NHL team becoming a player of that level.

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

Toronto's organizational build is strange. They have some good players, but no actual great ones. They are too good to draft actual star talent but too bad to actually compete. The lack of game breaking talent will hold them back.

If you look at cup winners recently they have legit stars like Kane Toews Doughty Quick Crosby Malkin Zetterberg Datsyuk Thomas Chara. I don't see any of the current leaf guys both in the prospect pool and the NHL team becoming a player of that level.

Phil Kessel says hit. JVR is a great winger. Morgan Reilly is 20 years old and was drafted 5th overall. William Nylander was drafted 7th overall. Both are great young talents.

Phil Kessel has put up the same points as Giroux, Stamkos, Getlaf the past 3 seasons. Please explain how Phil Kessel isn't a game breaker.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

I really care less about the "Last Decade". The Leafs are so far ahead of the Flames it's silly to claim anything else.

7 points ahead despite playing in the weak East to be precise.
With all that great young talent how come they weren't further ahead.
Strange.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

It's not just about prospects. Rielly is 20, Gardiner, 24, Kessel, 26. JVR 25, Bernier 26, Kadri 23. There's a lot of youth on that team not "Prospects" but are at, or yet to hit their primes.

Calgary simply isn't close to the Leafs in talent.

I agree entirely with your post. However, I don't think it's exactly an accomplishment to be better than one of the worst teams in the league. Being bad and lacking talent is the reason why Calgary is rebuilding. They've started off with some nice pieces but absolutely need to grab some impact players from the 2015, 2016 and probably 2017 and 2018 drafts to have any chance of making any sort of noise.

The same could be said about the Leafs, except that they aren't on the same road, or at least don't look to be, and likely wont be looking at getting the same impact players from the next couple drafts. They look to be stuck in a limbo of mediocrity similar to what that the Flames finally broke out of. Of course one trade for an all-star goalie (like the Kiprusoff trade) or a late round gem breaking through could change that for the Leafs.

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

7 points ahead despite playing in the weak East to be precise.
With all that great young talent how come they weren't further ahead.
Strange.

Bad coaching+ they made the playoffs the season prior.

So you think Calgary has as much talent?

[foshizzle11]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

Toronto's organizational build is strange. They have some good players, but no actual great ones. They are too good to draft actual star talent but too bad to actually compete. The lack of game breaking talent will hold them back.

If you look at cup winners recently they have legit stars like Kane Toews Doughty Quick Crosby Malkin Zetterberg Datsyuk Thomas Chara. I don't see any of the current leaf guys both in the prospect pool and the NHL team becoming a player of that level.

I agree with this. It is hard to pick players within the flames organization either with 100% certainty either but I just don't see it with the leafs current group. I'm not sure what they gave up to get Kessel was the best route, but you can't win a cup with him as your "superstar" player who should be leading the team. And then there is that Dion guy as the captain, I wonder how long that will last.

I was sure this thread wouldn't provide the same level of entertainment as the Oilers or the Canucks thread, but since the Kessel comments, it has been great.

Keep it coming Laffs!

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

I agree entirely with your post. However, I don't think it's exactly an accomplishment to be better than one of the worst teams in the league. Being bad and lacking talent is the reason why Calgary is rebuilding. They've started off with some nice pieces but absolutely need to grab some impact players from the 2015, 2016 and probably 2017 and 2018 drafts to have any chance of making any sort of noise.

The same could be said about the Leafs, except that they aren't on the same road, or at least don't look to be, and likely wont be looking at getting the same impact players from the next couple drafts. They look to be stuck in a limbo of mediocrity similar to what that the Flames finally broke out of. Of course one trade for an all-star goalie (like the Kiprusoff trade) or a late round gem breaking through could change that for the Leafs.

Yet they've drafted Rielly+Nylander the past 3 seasons.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

Bad coaching+ they made the playoffs the season prior.

So you think Calgary has as much talent?

I think the Leafs have a more skilled NHL club but their system is extremely thin. I think the Flames have a far deeper prospect base with more guys that are likely to make an impact.

Call it a saw-off overall.

But the Leafs are not a good hockey club. So even though they have more talent at the NHL level than the Flames - that's really not something to brag about.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

Bad coaching+ they made the playoffs the season prior.

So you think Calgary has as much talent?

Give it 2-3 years and I gaurentee the Flames will be the better team than the Leafs. Our pool of prospects are a heck of a lot better than what the Leafs have.

Yeah they made the playoffs but they also chocked in game 7 to the Bruins. Nothing to brag about there.

[Caged Great]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

Phil Kessel says hit. JVR is a great winger. Morgan Reilly is 20 years old and was drafted 5th overall. William Nylander was drafted 7th overall. Both are great young talents.

Phil Kessel has put up the same points as Giroux, Stamkos, Getlaf the past 3 seasons. Please explain how Phil Kessel isn't a game breaker.

Kessel's more of a one way guy, not a two way forward. If you look at the list of names I put up, each of Kane Toews Crosby Malkin Zetterberg Datsyuk is better defensively than Kessel.

Points believe it or not do not matter that much. We saw how many cups Iginla brought to Calgary (the only time we were close was also the last time Iginla was a true two way player).

He's good, but in of himself, he won't win you anything. JVR, Reilly and Nylander are all good players in their own right, but they are not likely going to be the calibre necessary to become a winning team.

Usually a team needs two star players, plus 4-5 really good players to be a cup contender (Eg with LA, guys like Kopitar Carter Brown Richards Gaborik). The leafs might have the 4-5 really good players down, but they don't have that star level talent.

I'm not saying that the leafs won't become a top team in the east, I don't see how they win a cup unless there's an Edmonton 2006 type fluke team in the finals.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

Yet they've drafted Rielly+Nylander the past 3 seasons.

I like both players actually, but by the time they are making impacts (if they do) will they be complimenting Phaneuf and Lupul or needing to replace the ~35 year olds? If Reilly and Nylander come in and end up more-or-less replacing the aging vets on the teams they remain status quo, which keeps the Leafs not good. They don't appear to have the prospect depth to do more than replace players at this point and they don't look to be on the road where that will change. If they get a couple late round gems, grab a couple good UFA's and win some trades they might be able to breakout of being a bad team, but the same can be said about any team.

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

Kessel's more of a one way guy, not a two way forward. If you look at the list of names I put up, each of Kane Toews Crosby Malkin Zetterberg Datsyuk is better defensively than Kessel.

Points believe it or not do not matter that much. We saw how many cups Iginla brought to Calgary (the only time we were close was also the last time Iginla was a true two way player).

He's good, but in of himself, he won't win you anything. JVR, Reilly and Nylander are all good players in their own right, but they are not likely going to be the calibre necessary to become a winning team.

Usually a team needs two star players, plus 4-5 really good players to be a cup contender (Eg with LA, guys like Kopitar Carter Brown Richards Gaborik). The leafs might have the 4-5 really good players down, but they don't have that star level talent.

I'm not saying that the leafs won't become a top team in the east, I don't see how they win a cup unless there's an Edmonton 2006 type fluke team in the finals.

Patrick Kane is not better than Kessel defensively. Zetternerg and Datsyul are also not close to Kessel offensively and have peaked already. Phil Kessel also has 13 goals, 21 points in 22 playoff games BTW. If he stayed on Boston he has a cup ring. It's a team game. Just like Toews has won nothing if he's on Toronto right now.

And Rielly and Nylander, JVR are already written-off as players you can't build around to win
' Be honest, you wouldn't say that about those players on the Flames.

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

I like both players actually, but by the time they are making impacts (if they do) will they be complimenting Phaneuf and Lupul or needing to replace the ~35 year olds? If Reilly and Nylander come in and end up more-or-less replacing the aging vets on the teams they remain status quo, which keeps the Leafs not good. They don't appear to have the prospect depth to do more than replace players at this point and they don't look to be on the road where that will change. If they get a couple late round gems, grab a couple good UFA's and win some trades they might be able to breakout of being a bad team, but the same can be said about any team.

Who cares? What team doesn't have that question about a couple of core pieces in regards to their prospects? I like Lupul, but is it really that devastating if he's not the same player in a couple of years?

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by Dion

Give it 2-3 years and I gaurentee the Flames will be the better team than the Leafs. Our pool of prospects are a heck of a lot better than what the Leafs have.

Yeah they made the playoffs but they also chocked in game 7 to the Bruins. Nothing to brag about there.

And the Leafs current talent of young players destroys the Flames. The "Prospects" argument is a fancy way of pretending Kessel, Kadri, JVR, Rielly , Bernier don't exist.