Burke says he would have cut Ray Rice

[driveway]

http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/11...e-deserve-pros

The Calgary Flames' president was asked at the Global Business Forum how he would have handled the Ray Rice scandal.

"The notion that 'I get paid to fight on a hockey rink so that same level of violence is acceptable on the street or in my home,'" Burke said. "And if a player can't separate them, then the player doesn't deserve to earn professional-athlete wages."

...

"So in the Rice case, when there's a video, we don't have to guess what happened there," he said. "That case, we'd say, 'We're done with this player. He's done with us.' We're going to do the right thing first."

How would you react if a key member of the Flames, someone like Brodie or Monahan or Backlund, was in the Ray Rice situation and they were cut from the Flames' roster?

On a tangential topic, a message board for the Minnesota Vikings, VikingsMessageBoard.com has completely shut itself down over the Adrian Peterson situation and subsequent fan reaction on the website.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-sh...141959347.html

Vikings Message Board has been shut down permanently. It will not return. There are two primary reasons.

1. The Vikings' cowardly decision to reinstate a child abuser and think that an apology will make this blow over. We will not stand for this arrogance and we will no longer be the home of any support of the Vikings. We stand for those who cannot defend themselves.

2. We will not give a voice to thugs who think child abuse is "cultural" or worse, openly advocate child abuse as a reasonable method of punishment. This ends here. Yes, a few board members have ruined it for everyone. Congratulations, [jerks].

What kind of situation would it take for CP to elect to shut down over behaviour of the team and behaviour of members on the board itself?

[BACKCHECK!!!]

I dunno, but the Staios for Johnson trade almost did it for me.

The Smid - Horak/Brossoit trade would have done it too if it weren't for the fact that we pretty much fleeced the Oilers completely.

[atb]

Interesting article on this while situation: http://m.espn.go.com/general/story?s...18&src=desktop

Based on that article, it seems like the closest comparable to what Ray Rice meant to the Ravens is what Iginla meant to the Flames.

[MyFlamesFirst]

Never a dull moment with Burke. He is very opinionated, and I like it.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

If any member of the Flames did what Ray Rice did not only would I be ok with them getting cut, I would expect it. I don't care what player it is, if he's the best player on the team or a 4th line AHL call up, you cut him and don't look back.

I didn't want Bertuzzi on this team, I surely wouldn't any player that abuses women or children.

[madmike]

To be fair I think almost any NHL GM would have. Players facing serious charges in the NHL is much more rare than in the NFL.

[devo22]

good. If this happened to a Flames player, I'd actually be disappointed if they didn't cut him. It's the only option in such a case IMO.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by driveway

http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/11...e-deserve-pros



How would you react if a key member of the Flames, someone like Brodie or Monahan or Backlund, was in the Ray Rice situation and they were cut from the Flames' roster?

I would be 100% in support of it. There's no room for stuff like that in our society. In fact, I would be downright pissed off if I had to keep watching someone like that play for my team.

Someone mentioned Bertuzzi, but IMO they aren't comparable. What he did was on the ice and he wasn't the only one culpable in that situation.

On a tangential topic, a message board for the Minnesota Vikings, VikingsMessageBoard.com has completely shut itself down over the Adrian Peterson situation and subsequent fan reaction on the website.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-sh...141959347.html



What kind of situation would it take for CP to elect to shut down over behaviour of the team and behaviour of members on the board itself?

I don't like hypotheticals, so I won't say exactly what it would take, but something along the lines of genocide.


One has to ask themselves this question: Why is it that the NFL and NHL have similar culture of violence on the field/ice, yet the NFL seems to have way higher incidences of violent behavior off the field? Is it the sense of entitlement and invincibility? Is it a cultural problem within the NFL? Goodell seemed to think there was an institutional problem in his press conference. Does it start at college where these guys are treated as local heroes and are given a free pass to get through school (lots of articles these days about schools having academic issues with athletes covered up or ignored). Does it start at high school? There seems to be issues with substance abuse in both leagues. There seems to be issues with post-concussion syndrome and serious brain changes including depression in both leagues. What is it with the violence off the field?

[bzoo02]

I want to think it has to do with egos. Hockey players are some of the most humble people on the planet considering the spotlight they have and money they make. I find football players (can lump basketball in here too) are quite the opposite.
CFF I think you may be on to something with the "home town hero/college star" entitlement

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by atb

Interesting article on this while situation: http://m.espn.go.com/general/story?s...18&src=desktop

Based on that article, it seems like the closest comparable to what Ray Rice meant to the Ravens is what Iginla meant to the Flames.

There is no way Ray Rice has ever meant as much to the Ravens as Iggy. Ray Lewis, maybe. Ray Rice was a decent back who's been in decline for two years previous.

[dustygoon]

I dont get the argument that this is the same as parents who used to spank more, use straps or switches. I see a difference from that vs what AP did to a 4 year old.

[GettinIggyWithIt]

Originally Posted by Cali Flames Fan

One has to ask themselves this question: Why is it that the NFL and NHL have similar culture of violence on the field/ice, yet the NFL seems to have way higher incidences of violent behavior off the field? Is it the sense of entitlement and invincibility? Is it a cultural problem within the NFL? Goodell seemed to think there was an institutional problem in his press conference. Does it start at college where these guys are treated as local heroes and are given a free pass to get through school (lots of articles these days about schools having academic issues with athletes covered up or ignored). Does it start at high school? There seems to be issues with substance abuse in both leagues. There seems to be issues with post-concussion syndrome and serious brain changes including depression in both leagues. What is it with the violence off the field?

Well the violence on field/ice I think is just a part of the sport. Football and hockey are by far the most physical of the major sports in North America and attracts athletes who enjoy that level of physicality and combativeness.

Off the ice/field, I think a part of it has to do with the demographics of the athletes. Hockey is a fairly expensive sport and individuals have to pay for themselves throughout most of their career, so the majority of kids that get into hockey come from pretty well off families and thus have more of an opportunity to have had a good upbringing. I am not equating income to how upstanding an individual is, just the opportunities that are provided and the support systems available. For a lot of NFL players, the only reason they have the opportunity to even wear that equipment growing up is because it's supplied by the teams that they play for. Otherwise they wouldn't be able to afford it or the costs. Many have had difficult childhoods and athletics was pretty much the only way out for some (there are also those in hockey that have had tough childhoods of course). So they haven't had the same support systems and opportunities growing up. Many have been exposed in some way to the same violence that they inflict on others. This has the opportunity to impact what kind of a person that individual becomes and how long it takes them to 'grow up' and become an adult.

This is a generalization and based only on my observations and experiences. A lot of players growing up in the situations I've mentioned have really persevered, and overcome the challenges to become great athletes and even better people. But I think this does play a part.

[SportsJunky]

Originally Posted by dustygoon

I dont get the argument that this is the same as parents who used to spank more, use straps or switches. I see a difference from that vs what AP did to a 4 year old.

Different of course but no less despicable.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by madmike

To be fair I think almost any NHL GM would have. Players facing serious charges in the NHL is much more rare than in the NFL.

Exactly. No way would a team want a PR nightmare like that to deal with. I'm sure most would see it as the right thing to do anyways.

[Drury18]

I think the Ray Rice like scenario is an easy answer. It's on tape, it's undeniably him and it's an undeniable action that really doesn't have a defence. While he hasn't been proven guilty by a court of law, there is reasonable evidence to put the act on him. I don't care if it is the best player on the team scoring 50 goals at the midway point of the season and single handedly leading us into the playoffs, you are cut.

I think the bigger question might be how does a team or NHL handle a situation like Varlamov should it happen again? He's arrested and charged with domestic violence, there are pictures and police reports that are rather damning against him, and then all charges are dropped. I'm not sure Colorado's response to immediately back him were correct initially as it looked like they were brushing off a serious event. Yes, he did end up having all charges dropped, but when the information first came out, it did look like the Avs were basically saying it's okay he did what he did.

[shogged]

I'd cut Ray Rice, he punched his wife in the face, knocked her out cold.. with video evidence. To me that is a no brainer.

I would not cut Adrien Peterson. I do not agree with the method of discipline he used against his child. However, I also do not believe his intentions were malicious and I cannot see his criminal charges progressing much further. I received the wooden spoon as a child and it left some pretty good welts. Do my parents deserve to lose their jobs? I cannot fault a father for disciplining his child as he was disciplined himself. I may not agree with his methods, but he is better served with education than unemployment. Perhaps a community service penalty in which he helps educate others that societies views on corporal punishment against children have changed. But no, he shouldn't lose his job and his means of supporting his family.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by shogged

I'd cut Ray Rice, he punched his wife in the face, knocked her out cold.. with video evidence. To me that is a no brainer.

I would not cut Adrien Peterson. I do not agree with the method of discipline he used against his child. However, I also do not believe his intentions were malicious and I cannot see his criminal charges progressing much further. I received the wooden spoon as a child and it left some pretty good welts. Do my parents deserve to lose their jobs? I cannot fault a father for disciplining his child as he was disciplined himself. I may not agree with his methods, but he is better served with education than unemployment. Perhaps a community service penalty in which he helps educate others that societies views on corporal punishment against children have changed. But no, he shouldn't lose his job and his means of supporting his family.

Peterson said himself he took a stick and hit his kid multiple times. Malicious intent or not, that is child abuse. The whole 'spanking as discipline' argument is getting blown out of proportion because people think taking a stick and beating your kid is normal 'spanking' behavior. In the province of Manitoba, kids from age 2-12 can be spanked, but it must be done with an open hand. Anything else is against the law. I was spanked too as a child, often with a 'strap'...and I never had any welts of ANY kind. If you're leaving a physical mark, something is wrong. I liked Peterson as a player and person just like everyone else, but taking a stick and beating his kid is to me child abuse and he should be kicked out of the league.

[driveway]

Last year Semyon Varlamov was accused of domestic violence. The charges were ultimately dropped. While he was charged, he continued to play for the Avalanche.

Adrian Peterson is currently only charged with child abuse, yet he cannot play for the Vikings. Peterson has not been convicted of any offence, but he is suspended with pay.

If an NHL player today were accused of domestic violence, I think that the current media climate would require an immediate suspension until the case was resolved, instead of the usual play-until-postseason-court-case arrangement. I think, in the long run, a policy of 'suspend from play until convicted/acquitted' will benefit society and the focus paid to domestic violence and child abuse, but I bet it's going to result in some serious lawsuits.

[Psytic]

Originally Posted by SportsJunky

Different of course but no less despicable.

Totally different. I used to get spanked and whacked with a wooden spoon and I was better off for it. Some kids today could use a spanking.

[driveway]

Originally Posted by Psytic

Totally different. I used to get spanked and whacked with a wooden spoon and I was better off for it. Some kids today could use a spanking.

You're not better off for it. You grew up into someone who thinks it's okay to hit kids.