YLYL Thread Sexism Discussion (split from Gay Teen thread).

[troutman]

I don't entirely agree with the first quote either, but we can have a discussion about it. Why so angry?

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

That implies the majority is always incorrect which is simply incorrect.

This comments implies that you don't understand the implication of those quotes. Infact, you're basically proving the value of the points those quotes make. Thanks?

[Arya Stark]

Originally Posted by rubecube

How was that condescending? It was a completely accurate explanation of the quotes, and the two men in question had two brilliant minds.

I did not quote that part of his post. I had no problem with that part, it's his constant "quotes can't be stupid, they're quotes" like he thinks he is saying something profound. No need to add that in.

[Chill Cosby]

Originally Posted by Arya Stark

I did not quote that part of his post. I had no problem with that part, it's his constant "quotes can't be stupid, they're quotes" like he thinks he is saying something profound. No need to add that in.

Well it's true. In no way did I mean it in a condescending way or as a shot to nik as I quite like many of his posts.

Really much ado about nothing. No need to let emotion rule your posts. Trust me, as I've proven, only mistakes are made when you do that.

[Mattington]

Originally Posted by wittynickname

The point in the article about just including women: give us jersey sizing options that work. More fitted jerseys but in normal regular team colors, because not everything for women has to be sparkly and pink.

Haven't womens jerseys been around for a while? Roughly 3 years ago now, I bought my Sister and my Wife womens sized jerseys that were in normal team colours. The jerseys seem to fit them quite well.

[photon]

Originally Posted by Arya Stark

The first one definitely does.

No it doesn't, EE said "That implies the majority is always incorrect".

Saying truth rests with the minority doesn't mean the majority is always incorrect. If the majority and minority share the same opinion then the majority wouldn't be incorrect.

But if the majority is so great in the future I'll pay more attention to the fan poll ratings of Flames players in the Calgary Sun than the opinions of CP members.

[WhiteTiger]

Originally Posted by photon

If the majority and minority share the same opinion then the majority wouldn't be incorrect.

If the minority and the majority share the same opinion...doesn't that make them all part of the majority? Isn't a minority a minority due to the fact that it doesn't hold the same opinion as the majority? If it held the same opinion, it'd just be the majority.

[photon]

If the criteria used to define the minority is the opinion itself I guess. EDIT: I didn't take minority to mean the minority of that single opinion, but I guess if read that way then yes it would be.

The meaning I take from the quote is that opinions formed intentionally are stronger than those gained through osmosis by being immersed in them, which I agree with. And that the minority in general puts more effort into forming their opinions simply because they're the minority, which seems reasonable.

[Barbecue]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Except to have a statistically significant cross section of the ~4000 active users (not including the 12,000 lurkers, a portion of whom I would guess actually voted) we would need 351 votes to have a 95% confidence level with a -/+5 confidence interval.

So far we only have 283 votes.

It would be nice to get at least two thirds of those who voted for the new CP logo to have their say here

If this thread can get bumped again a few weeks into hockey season, when more posters come back, we should get a better polling on the issue

[Barbecue]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

The fact that nearly half the community feels that the status quo isn't good doesn't really change things for me. As stated - I don't think this is a majority rules case.

So a question for both Jiri and Photon (and any other mod who havent posted yet) at what point would your opinion change if the poll results were to shift even more?

The results of the poll had to be significant (for Jiri at least) at one point.

I feel that the poll was taken at a moment in time when opposition to the thread was it's hottest as it was just being discussed in the Gay teen thread. I dont think there was any doubt you'd get heavy numbers in favor of changes made to the YLYL thread. Those who were against it were opinionated and voted immediately. For those who are supporting to keep the YLYL thread as is, whether they were previously apathetic or did not know about this thread in discussion, they are slowly trickling in.

Given how the percentages have shifted, it seems that the # of people who wanted something done about the YLYL thread has peaked and the trend is showing the "as is" percentage is growing. If we were to keep this thread around until a few weeks into hockey season, we'd get a better representation of what CPers want.

I get the feeling that you guys were only concerned if the # of in favor of a certain action had hit a particular number, instead of percentages.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by photon

If the criteria used to define the minority is the opinion itself I guess. EDIT: I didn't take minority to mean the minority of that single opinion, but I guess if read that way then yes it would be.

The context of this thread and the context of the quote are different.
In here we are talking about minority/majority of an opinion in itself, while the quote was likely referring to demographics or populations of some sort.

So while an interesting quote, it doesn't really apply in the context of this thread and if one wants to apply it, it definitely does imply that the majority opinion is not holding the truth.

[photon]

Originally Posted by Barbecue

So a question for both Jiri and Photon (and any other mod who havent posted yet) at what point would your opinion change if the poll results were to shift even more?

My original question was is the YLYL thread sexist (well I said misogynistic but I was using the terms synonymously incorrectly, I meant sexist).

My opinion on whether it is sexist or not isn't informed by a poll of people's opinion about what if anything should be done with the thread, it's going to be formed by my understanding of sexism in today's society and my values.

My opinion on the poll question (What should CP do with the YLYL thread) is going to be informed by my opinion if it's sexist and my values, not a poll on others' opinions.

That's all regarding my personal opinion, which may be different than how I approach it from a moderator point of view.

Originally Posted by Barbecue

The results of the poll had to be significant (for Jiri at least) at one point.

As I already mentioned Jiri was talking about it in context of if it was surprising or not (the quote from him you made earlier was anyway).

Originally Posted by Barbecue

I get the feeling that you guys were only concerned if the # of in favor of a certain action had hit a particular number, instead of percentages.

Not even close, and I've talked about this before in this thread. The poll isn't relevant to the moderators' decision about the fate of the thread and the larger issue of sexism. We will make a decision based on what we feel is right and fits within the values and goals we want the forum to represent, not what we think is popular or if a certain desire hits critical mass.

[photon]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

The context of this thread and the context of the quote are different.

Oh for sure, I was reading it as an abstract philosophical thing.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Barbecue

So a question for both Jiri and Photon (and any other mod who havent posted yet) at what point would your opinion change if the poll results were to shift even more?

Dunno because that's just one piece of the puzzle. I'm not forming my opinion on the poll alone.

Originally Posted by Barbecue

The results of the poll had to be significant (for Jiri at least) at one point.

I feel that the poll was taken at a moment in time when opposition to the thread was it's hottest as it was just being discussed in the Gay teen thread. I dont think there was any doubt you'd get heavy numbers in favor of changes made to the YLYL thread. Those who were against it were opinionated and voted immediately. For those who are supporting to keep the YLYL thread as is, whether they were previously apathetic or did not know about this thread in discussion, they are slowly trickling in.

Given how the percentages have shifted, it seems that the # of people who wanted something done about the YLYL thread has peaked and the trend is showing the "as is" percentage is growing. If we were to keep this thread around until a few weeks into hockey season, we'd get a better representation of what CPers want.

I get the feeling that you guys were only concerned if the # of in favor of a certain action had hit a particular number, instead of percentages.

Not true at all. The poll is just a part of this. At no time did we say it was binding or suggest we would make our decisions on it and it alone.

[Arya Stark]

Originally Posted by photon

No it doesn't, EE said "That implies the majority is always incorrect".

Saying truth rests with the minority doesn't mean the majority is always incorrect. If the majority and minority share the same opinion then the majority wouldn't be incorrect.

But if the majority is so great in the future I'll pay more attention to the fan poll ratings of Flames players in the Calgary Sun than the opinions of CP members.

Well I would agree but the quote is actually "truth always rests with the minority" so not sure if the quote is being taken out of context but with the way it is written and being taken out of context I believe it says the minority is always right.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Arya Stark

Well I would agree but the quote is actually "truth always rests with the minority" so not sure if the quote is being taken out of context but with the way it is written and being taken out of context I believe it says the minority is always right.

To be fair, it's a Danish philosopher, so the translation could also be slightly off. Also, the dude loved to stir the pot.

[jayswin]

The YLYL thread discussion is about more than just that thread, it's also been about the overall tone of posts discussing women and how that affects CP's female posters.

I think we can all agree that these are the types of posts that need to go the way of the dodo for this place to start becoming more inclusive and less repulsive. Yes, I realize it's satire, but it's still being said, and the vulgar terms are still being used, and of course, like always the girl is the subject of the vulgar joke.

Captain Crunch

Hey at least he got to plow her, I'm betting she was a spicy meatball.

Now she's got a whole record of angsty material to write, and her A&R man says he don't here a single.

You've got two artists that are married and going to split up. So what do we get from that? HE got to plow HER, SHE was probably a spicey meatball. SHE's got a whole record of angsty material to write.

Nope nothing about the guy, it's all about the girl and how at least the guy got to "plow" her.

Get rid of this **** and we'll at least have a start, I think.

[GGG]

As an aside the flames do have regular team colour women's fitted jerseies

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by GGG

As an aside the flames do have regular team colour women's fitted jerseies

Sorry I don't follow.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Sorry I don't follow.

In one of the earlier posts in was asked that nhl teams make non pink fitted jerseys. They do.