Nhl says no to jersey ads - and $120m windfall

[squiggs96]

Originally Posted by polak

A) People saying "I won't buy one" is not evidence against my claim. Guess what, I bet almost everyone says "I won't do meth" at one point in their lives, yet people still do it. Just cause you say you won't buy it now doesn't mean you won't buy one when the Flames are in the cup final and you really want a Gaudreau jersey after he scores 12 goals against Seattle.

B) Pretty much all of you are ignoring the part of my claim where I say "those who already regulary buy jerseys". If you, for example, don't own the current jersey of your favorite team (let alone multiples like I was inferring) then you don't fall in that category. If people like that stop buying jerseys then the NHL has a problem. Casual fans / Merch buyers are influenced by way too many outside factors anyways for this to be a significant factor.

If by regulary, you mean regularly, then I think I fall into the regularly category. I have the following jerseys:

Atlanta Flames
-Guy Chouinard #16 Red

Calgary Flames
-Jay Bouwmeester 2008-09 Home Alternate (Retro)
-Jarome Iginla 2009-10 Home with 30th Anniversary Patch
-TJ Brodie 2010-11 Home Authentic
-Sven Baertschi 2011-12 Home Alternate Authentic (Retro)
-Sean Monahan 2013-14 Home Alternate Authentic (New 3rd)
-Sean Monahan 2013-14 Game Worn Retro (Worn on ice during Nieuwendyk FAF night)
-Mark Giordano Home
-Curtis Glencross Home
-Miikka Kiprusoff Heritage Classic

So I have 10 Flames jerseys, about 15 SF Giants jerseys, and 5 NE Patriots jerseys. I'd consider myself a regular purchaser of jerseys. I can unequivocally state, that if the Calgary jersey changes to become a soccer style jersey, I will not purchase it. I will continue to wear the jerseys I already have. I'll buy a Gaudreau jersey at one point this year. I'll likely get a Bennett one in the future. If Calgary drafts McDavid or Eichel, I'll likely get that one. If any of them have a corporate logo as the main feature on the front of the jersey, I won't buy one.

Your meth logic doesn't hold water either. As pointed out, 100% of people may say they won't do meth, but 100% of people don't do meth. Billions of people have died without doing meth, meaning less than 100% of people have done meth.

People, like myself, are saying they won't buy a jersey if a certain situation happens. You are basically calling all of us liars and refusing to listen to evidence. My word is evidence. I'm saying I won't purchase a jersey if I don't want to. That's very easy for me to do. It's very easy to not do things. Take for example your refusal to listen to logic here, or in the text message thread, or most places. You are not taking a rational position, and it seems very easy to do. You aren't even taking a position that can't be proven.

You're taking a position that 100% of people will buy a jersey with a corporate logo on it. How many people here didn't buy the new 3rd jersey? I'd guess many. They didn't buy it, because they didn't like it. I liked it, so I bought one. There are many people here who have several jerseys, that hated it and refused to pay for it. Even if one of them didn't buy it, it shows that 100% is not attainable. You aren't even claiming hyperbole; you are claiming an absolute. You are wrong, and you should feel bad.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by squiggs96

So I have 10 Flames jerseys, about 15 SF Giants jerseys, and 5 NE Patriots jerseys.

How come we're not best friends yet? All my teams.

[Komskies]

Originally Posted by troutman

How come we're not best friends yet? All my teams.

[Igster]

No to ads on jersey's...

[polak]

Originally Posted by squiggs96

If by regulary, you mean regularly, then I think I fall into the regularly category. I have the following jerseys:

Atlanta Flames
-Guy Chouinard #16 Red

Calgary Flames
-Jay Bouwmeester 2008-09 Home Alternate (Retro)
-Jarome Iginla 2009-10 Home with 30th Anniversary Patch
-TJ Brodie 2010-11 Home Authentic
-Sven Baertschi 2011-12 Home Alternate Authentic (Retro)
-Sean Monahan 2013-14 Home Alternate Authentic (New 3rd)
-Sean Monahan 2013-14 Game Worn Retro (Worn on ice during Nieuwendyk FAF night)
-Mark Giordano Home
-Curtis Glencross Home
-Miikka Kiprusoff Heritage Classic

So I have 10 Flames jerseys, about 15 SF Giants jerseys, and 5 NE Patriots jerseys. I'd consider myself a regular purchaser of jerseys. I can unequivocally state, that if the Calgary jersey changes to become a soccer style jersey, I will not purchase it. I will continue to wear the jerseys I already have. I'll buy a Gaudreau jersey at one point this year. I'll likely get a Bennett one in the future. If Calgary drafts McDavid or Eichel, I'll likely get that one. If any of them have a corporate logo as the main feature on the front of the jersey, I won't buy one.

Your meth logic doesn't hold water either. As pointed out, 100% of people may say they won't do meth, but 100% of people don't do meth. Billions of people have died without doing meth, meaning less than 100% of people have done meth.

People, like myself, are saying they won't buy a jersey if a certain situation happens. You are basically calling all of us liars and refusing to listen to evidence. My word is evidence. I'm saying I won't purchase a jersey if I don't want to. That's very easy for me to do. It's very easy to not do things. Take for example your refusal to listen to logic here, or in the text message thread, or most places. You are not taking a rational position, and it seems very easy to do. You aren't even taking a position that can't be proven.

You're taking a position that 100% of people will buy a jersey with a corporate logo on it. How many people here didn't buy the new 3rd jersey? I'd guess many. They didn't buy it, because they didn't like it. I liked it, so I bought one. There are many people here who have several jerseys, that hated it and refused to pay for it. Even if one of them didn't buy it, it shows that 100% is not attainable. You aren't even claiming hyperbole; you are claiming an absolute. You are wrong, and you should feel bad.

So you're saying you would never buy another NHL jersey again? That's what you're saying. Because it's not like they'll come out with some jerseys with ads and some without. It will be 100% ads from there on in. That's where I'm going with my absolutes. I don't think there is anyone that is currently buying as many jerseys as you that will stop, FOREVER, just because of the ad. A combination of reasons? Sure. But if your financial freedom, taste in team and availability stay the same I just flat out do not believe that you will not buy another NHL jersey ever again. Samething if the Giants or Patriots incorporate ads. What, are you never going to buy another jersey again? Ever? In your life you will never purchase a new jersey? Doesn't matter what happens to your favorite team? If they become a dynasty? Draft the next Gretzky? Make an absolutely gorgeous jersey despite the ad? Thats the thing about my guarantee, it doesn't end. At one point there will be nothing but jerseys with ads on it and I just don't accept your notion that you will never buy one ever again.

My meth logic was just to prove that your word is not evidence, not to prove my point.

Now I want a list of people who are claiming they will never buy an NHL jersey again once adds are incorporated into their design because I guarantee it will just be a matter of time.

[codynw]

Originally Posted by polak

I am stubborn and annoying.

Fixed your post.

[Resolute 14]

No polak, your "meth logic" simply shows you are as poor at forming analogies as you are at basic math.

[Meers]

Why dilute the NHL clubs' brands? The value of those brands certainly exceed $120 million.

[squiggs96]

Originally Posted by polak

So you're saying you would never buy another NHL jersey again? That's what you're saying. Because it's not like they'll come out with some jerseys with ads and some without. It will be 100% ads from there on in. That's where I'm going with my absolutes. I don't think there is anyone that is currently buying as many jerseys as you that will stop, FOREVER, just because of the ad. A combination of reasons? Sure. But if your financial freedom, taste in team and availability stay the same I just flat out do not believe that you will not buy another NHL jersey ever again. Samething if the Giants or Patriots incorporate ads. What, are you never going to buy another jersey again? Ever? In your life you will never purchase a new jersey? Doesn't matter what happens to your favorite team? If they become a dynasty? Draft the next Gretzky? Make an absolutely gorgeous jersey despite the ad? Thats the thing about my guarantee, it doesn't end. At one point there will be nothing but jerseys with ads on it and I just don't accept your notion that you will never buy one ever again.

My meth logic was just to prove that your word is not evidence, not to prove my point.

Now I want a list of people who are claiming they will never buy an NHL jersey again once adds are incorporated into their design because I guarantee it will just be a matter of time.

I have stopped going to a restaurant because they asked for photo ID me when I used my VISA. I switched dry cleaners because they brought a dog into their office. I paid $5 more for bike pedals because I didn't get any service in one store for five minutes and walked across the street to MEC and bought them there. I cancelled my car2go membership because they didn't tell me my free minutes expired in 30 days. I stopped going to Boston Pizza because they changed their name to Vancouver Pizza during the 2011 SCF. I stopped going to another restaurant because I went there for dinner one night and they had rented out the entire place for a wedding, without putting a notice on their twitter or web page. The Aquilini group that owns the canucks bought a group of restaurants in Vancouver, many of which were good. I refuse to go there because I will not support the canucks directly, or indirectly.

The point of my above rambling is that it's pretty easy for me to boycott or not use something. There are tons of things/places for me to spend money at, and if I don't want to buy something, I won't. Although I've said it before, I'll say it again; I would never buy an NHL jersey if it was styled after a soccer jersey. I'd be fine with the small patch like the CFL uses. I stopped watching a reality show because I didn't like one of the judges. Once that judge was gone, I went back to it. If the Flames had a patch like that, but it was Pepsi, I wouldn't buy that jersey either, as I hate Pepsi. If it was a small Coke patch, sure. If it was a large Coke logo instead of the flaming C, there is no chance I buy it. How is that so hard to believe. What is stopping you from comprehending that some people don't want to purchase something? Are you just being stubborn for the point of being stubborn? At this point your posts are irrational and borderline trolling. I don't mind, and often welcome debate as long as you words are well thought out and sensible. What you are doing is digging your heels in, dismissing everyone else's opinion, even when faced with sound logic.

If the league (or another league) goes to the soccer style jerseys, I'll absolutely stop buying those jerseys. I'll be the guy in the Dome (assuming a new arena isn't built in the next 30 years) wearing my "retro" jerseys. The kids may be confused why Baertschi's jersey says 47, but they won't be confused about the flaming C on the front. It's classic.

I don't need a jersey. I like them. If I don't like what the jersey looks like or stands for, why would I buy one? We often hear you play for the team on the front of the jersey, not the name on the back. Would they be playing for Scotiabank or the Flames?

[SebC]

Originally Posted by polak

My claim was based on it being like soccer jerseys and I'm saying that there wouldn't be. We have no evidence to base any of this on except for the fact that this hasn't hurt soccer in any way.

Whilst you've been unable to recognize any of the other flaws in your argument, how do you know that soccer jersey's wouldn't sell more if they weren't sponsored?

Obviously, sponsorship may provide a net benefit to the league (and very likely does), but that's only saying that the ad revenue would offset lost sales, not that there would be no lost sales.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Here's what will happen. There will be a short term hit to sales while people "protest" this and hope it will go away. Then when it doesn't, jersey sales go back to normal and people will buy them at the same pace they always did.

Thinking otherwise is silly. Especially considering there are real life examples of this in soccer. I don't want logo's on the jersey's, but for it to have a permanent impact on jersey sales (to the negative) is pretty unlikely.

[pylon]

I absolutely laugh my ass off when I see some loser wearing a soccer jersey with a GIANT Samsung or other mega corp logo on the front. You are paying more to advertise big screen TV's, not to support your club. Most people will identify with Samsungs logo, than some soccer team in another country.

Samsung should be paying you to wear that Jersey, not the other way around. If the NHL goes this route, I won't pay a nickel for a jersey ever again.

[edn88]

I'm sure that they other leagues have not gone the ad route for a reason, and perhaps it is fear of jersey sales being eroded. I would think the NFL, MLB and NBA have far more economic incentive to put ads on their jerseys.

I am certain that there will be people that will NOT buy jerseys if there were ads on them. Having said that, people are funny about what they buy. I am always amazed at the people who wear cycling 'jersey's's with advertisements, and I am a walking billboard for Adidas and Nike when I play golf.

[combustiblefuel]

Originally Posted by polak

A) People saying "I won't buy one" is not evidence against my claim. Guess what, I bet almost everyone says "I won't do meth" at one point in their lives, yet people still do it. Just cause you say you won't buy it now doesn't mean you won't buy one when the Flames are in the cup final and you really want a Gaudreau jersey after he scores 12 goals against Seattle.

B) Pretty much all of you are ignoring the part of my claim where I say "those who already regulary buy jerseys". If you, for example, don't own the current jersey of your favorite team (let alone multiples like I was inferring) then you don't fall in that category. If people like that stop buying jerseys then the NHL has a problem. Casual fans / Merch buyers are influenced by way too many outside factors anyways for this to be a significant factor.

No I would not get one with ads . Your argument so for has been all bs, as much Bs as the bolded.

A) No one scores 12 goals
B) There is no Seattle hockey team
C) Even if this fictitious team existed they would be in the same division let alone the same conference. Them both being in the Final is not happening.

[Flashpoint]

Considering how ugly the blue flag, Ronald McDonald heritage classic, and cowboy NJ Devil colored Flames Jerseys have all been, I'm not sure we'll be giving up much in the looks dept...

[Arya Stark]

Originally Posted by pylon

If the NHL goes this route, I won't pay a nickel for a jersey ever again.

Sorry pylon, Polak has already 100% guaranteed you will so I will have to side with him.

[GirlySports]

[RedMan12]

Potentially how much money would they lose in jersey sales. I would not buy one with ads and logos all over it.

[undercoverbrother]

I think it is a matter of when not if this will happen

While I don't think the NHL will jump right into what we see in Europe, they will find a way for selling space on the player.

I mean there already is advertising on pads, sticks, helmets, gloves, pants, etc.

We are just use to how that advertising looks.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by BurningYears

Two different advertisers