Scottish independence referendum thread

[Matty81]

It's a real shame when private industry gets involved in fear mongering like that during an important democratic process.

They are announcing they are moving before they even fully understand what the new operating environment will be like? Seems really fishy to me.

[Coys1882]

Will be interesting if the leave to see how this effects the Schengen Agreement. Since the UK opts out of it - Scotland would have to as well or they'd have to put border crossings between Scotland and England.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by rubecube

I mean really, there are still probably too many trash cans in England.

please explain

[icarus]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

You may be English, Irish and Scottish; but how do you actually feel when it comes to nationality? If you told an English man all 3, he would probably have trouble understanding that.

I only feel Canadian. I can barely be bothered if England or Scotland or Ireland are playing in sport, for instance. However I am proud of my ancestry and happily discuss with anyone who will listen. But yes I take your point, especially if it is expressed as being 'I am' rather than 'my ancestors were'.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by icarus

Was it real pity, or the kind of playful faux-pity that an Albertan might show to someone who said he was from, say, Toronto or Newfoundland?

My ancestry in English, Scottish and Irish and I can't say I've ever experienced this, and I'm not aware that any of my Scottish or Welsh born and bred friends have experienced this in England but maybe London and the South-east is a bit more cosmopolitan than other parts of England.

It was north of London somewhere, can't remember exactly as it was 40 + years ago and I was hitchhiking. The reaction startled me but things have probably changed since then and he was just one person. Mostly I found the people very friendly, except when confused for a Yank.

I was talking to a black woman from London a while ago and she said that they call themselves British as opposed to English as kind of a code to show they are emigres from former British colonies. Yeah I'm Canadian, my mother was born in Vancouver and my dad in Calgary.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

please explain

It was a tasteless joke about the IRA.

[Daradon]

This is so similar to the Quebec/Canada separation referendum it's eerie. Now Cameron is being accused of not taking it seriously enough until the 11th hour and he's finally realized it may not go his way. Chretien was accused of the exact same thing.

[Daryei]

Originally Posted by Ducay

Quebec is nothing like Scotland. Scotland is more akin to Alberta. (Oil & Gas royalty wealth, different mindset of public, conservative).

Quebec would be like Wales, poor, useless and speak another launguage (try having an old lady speak Welsh to you...yikes).

Scotland is the country that kept Labour in power in the UK, and you think the Scots are *conservative*? Are you having a laugh?

They voted 100% for either the Liberal Democrats, SNP, or Labour in the last election. All left leaning parties. Not a single Tory seat.

Not sure I would place a diverse people into any group such as 'conservative' or 'different mindset'...

But if you want to call all Scots 'cheap'....

[evman150]

Originally Posted by Matty81

It's a real shame when private industry gets involved in fear mongering like that during an important democratic process.

They are announcing they are moving before they even fully understand what the new operating environment will be like? Seems really fishy to me.

A shame? They have every right to move their business, or threaten to move. It is perfectly reasonable that they would not want to do business in a new country with no currency, and clue as to any way forward.

If it is true they employ 6000 people in Edinburgh, that's a nice chunk of voters for the No side. As long as they're not forcing their employees to vote No, I see nothing wrong with it.

Personally, I'm really hoping for a No vote. I'm of English/Scottish/Irish ancestry, and it's not that I'm against Scottish independence per se, it's just that I think it would be terrible for Scotland.

[Daradon]

So much weirdness in this thread, hadn't taken a good look at it for a while.

An argument by one poster is, 'well my mom and dad are Scottish (or of Scottish decent, I forget which) so I know where I stand, independence all the way!'

Ermmm, that's not really a reason. And the best example of that is there are people in Scoland who are obviously a lot more 'Scottish' who are voting no. It's nothing but the trappings of misplaced pride, and even sketchy at that.

Also the comment that the UK government has no plans for what should happen if a yes vote goes down. Well, agreed, both sides are woefully unprepared for a yes vote, just as they were in Canada. But the real side that has to have a road map is the separatist side. Why would the UK government put in a road map or a contingency plan to help smooth seperation? About all they can do is talk tough now (IE no shared currency, no shared passports), and then negotiate later if the yes side wins.

And then to say that business shouldn't get a say, where do I even start with that? Of course it's important to them and their workers. I'm against big business running government for sure, but this is hardly the same thing. This is the exact sort of thing that the businesses and the people working in them and relying on them have to consider.

If your not considering business and prosperity, and the economic problems concerning a new country, what the hell are you considering? Just how nice it is to say you have your own country?

Lastly I find it weird that people here can be quite sympathetic to the 'Scottish cause' but have such disdain for the 'Quebec cause'. I have no proof that any specific poster has been caught in a hypocritical stance so to speak, but the sheer number in this discussion compared to the numbers in any Quebec based discussion leads me to believe there are at least a few.

[afc wimbledon]

Just a small historic point, England did not conquer Scotland, they invited the Scottish king to become the king of England, after Queen Elizabeth, hence James the sixth of Scotland become James the first of England this was the house of Stuart, a Scottish dynasty.
Hardly the fault of the English that the Scots King then turned his back on Edinborough and promptly moved to London.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Daryei

Scotland is the country that kept Labour in power in the UK, and you think the Scots are *conservative*? Are you having a laugh?

They voted 100% for either the Liberal Democrats, SNP, or Labour in the last election. All left leaning parties. Not a single Tory seat.

Not sure I would place a diverse people into any group such as 'conservative' or 'different mindset'...

But if you want to call all Scots 'cheap'....

Historically though the scots were conservative, much of their vote went to the SNP, ironically, after thatcher essentially killed the Tories in Scotland but prior to her they strongly held what is a mostly rural country.

The SNP really arnt left leaning either, they have tried to be all things to all people to get the referendum passed but their core support is very small c conservative.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Coys1882

Will be interesting if the leave to see how this effects the Schengen Agreement. Since the UK opts out of it - Scotland would have to as well or they'd have to put border crossings between Scotland and England.

Scotland won't be an EU member anyway for at least 5 to 10 years despite the weirdly similar claims to the PQ about automatic NAFTA entry.

[Daryei]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

Historically though the scots were conservative, much of their vote went to the SNP, ironically, after thatcher essentially killed the Tories in Scotland but prior to her they strongly held what is a mostly rural country.

The SNP really arnt left leaning either, they have tried to be all things to all people to get the referendum passed but their core support is very small c conservative.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottis...Party_ideology

[Matty81]

Business should have every right to move if they want. It's ridiculous that they are trying to influence the outcome and claiming they will move a week before the election to scare people because they have no idea what the economics post split will even look like. What currency will be in place, what the taxation scheme will be, all just assumptions at this point.

It will take quite some time afterwards to fully determing what the new country will look like, which might end up more favourable for their industry then the conditions in the United Kingdom (read England).

Right now, they are clearly just trying to fear monger. It's no different then if a large international oil company came out and said they are going to move thousands of office jobs from London to Aberdeen if the split occurs.

[Coys1882]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

Scotland won't be an EU member anyway for at least 5 to 10 years despite the weirdly similar claims to the PQ about automatic NAFTA entry.

But some non EU countries have opted into the agreement right? Norway I believe - I'm assuming Scotland could do the same.

[undercoverbrother]

Would this rid them of the monarchy?

If so that would be ample reason to vote yes.

[scottish_flame]

A yes vote would be terrible in my opinion

[scottish_flame]

Originally Posted by Matty81

Hopefully this does not turn ugly... the Orange Order from Northern Ireland are staging a big march through Edinburgh this weekend with quite a lot of them coming into the country, these guys are considered bigots by a lot of average folks and their marches often end in violence. Definitely not a group that the No campaign is going to want to identify with to win over the average person.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/politi...dinbu.25254357

The orange order are not bigots, that's what the real bigots want you to believe. By real bigots I mean Alex salmond and his tartan army whose bitter hate for the English is disgusting.

I'm proud to be British and Scottish.

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by scottish_flame

The orange order are not bigots,

LOL

No, no they're not. It's just that their members are.