Flames 2014 Training camp - rookies report Sept 11, main camp opens Sept 18

[Caged Great]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

I totally disagree, the size thing is way overblown. The most skilled teams win.

If the teams are close in talent, usually the bigger team wins. It is important. Small teams might be able to win a few rounds like Montreal, but they rarely if ever win. Look at how big the Kings players are, or Boston's when they won, or even Chicago.

You can get by with the best players being small like Kane, but you need huge players throughout the rest of the lineup.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

If the teams are close in talent, usually the bigger team wins. It is important. Small teams might be able to win a few rounds like Montreal, but they rarely if ever win. Look at how big the Kings players are, or Boston's when they won, or even Chicago.

You can get by with the best players being small like Kane, but you need huge players throughout the rest of the lineup.

Chicago was one of the smallest teams in the league when they won iirc. Top 3 maybe even

[Caged Great]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

I think Hanifin would be a very good fit for the Flames, but you don't take him over the two centres.

I don't expect the Flames to pick top 2 anyway, but picking 3rd and taking whoever is leftover of the three would be a very good position for this team to be in next June.

I just hope we're picking in the top 4 this year again, any of Kylington, Hanifin, McDavid or Eichel would be huge.

[mile]

Originally Posted by CKPThunder

I agree with you but there are always exceptions. The most obvious would be Carolina in 2006. Depending on your definition of stud defensemen, you could also argue Pittsburgh in 2009, Tampa Bay in 2004 and Colorado in 2001.

Those are exceptions (as you stated) though, and not the norm. Usually a cup final is contested between two elite teams, and in couple of the cases you mentioned, that isn't the case.

Carolina didn't need a #1 defenseman in 2006 to stop an Oiler team whose best forwards were Smyth, Hemsky, Horcoff, Samsonov, and Pisani. None of them were truly elite.

Calgary only had Iginla and Conroy as true top line threats in 2004. When a team is facing 1 or 2 top forwards it's easier to shut them down by committee.

I agree with you about Pittsburgh's win in 2009 being a true case where having elite center depth overcame their need for a #1 defenseman. However, one could argue that their win happened in a different landscape where offensive powerhouses were still thriving from the post-lockout rules. If you put 2009 Pittsburgh in today's playoffs would they have the same success against the likes of Chicago, Boston, and LA? I don't know. Boston completely suffocated Pittsburgh in their 2013 series despite Krejci/Bergeron being less accomplished than Crosby/Malkin and I don't think that Pittsburgh team was drastically different from their 2009 team.

What do all these teams have in common though? They haven't been able to maintain the same success after their cup wins. I really do think a #1 defenseman who stabilizes the back end, is needed to be a contender year in/ year out.

Originally Posted by AcGold

Anyone in our system that has potential to be our next Gio? I agree we need a top D-man to get a cup.

Right now? Nope.

Wotherspoon and Sieloff could both be players that compliment a top defenseman, but are not top defensemen themselves.

Ideally a top defenseman who has been drafted and developed by us, learning our systems and identity would be the preferable option. Otherwise getting that defenseman will cost a lot of assets or cap dollars.

From a sentimental standpoint, I'd hate to see Monahan or Bennett be used as trade bait to acquire or clear cap room for a #1 defenseman even if the Flames draft another great center (although it's possible to keep 3 great centers, one of them going may be what is needed to acquire one). Both of them seem like great players and people, and they're the type of guys I'd want to go to war with in the playoffs. Seems like they're dedicated to succeeding in the roles they were intended for - top centers for the Flames; not on the wing, and not for any other team.

[Caged Great]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

Chicago was one of the smallest teams in the league when they won iirc. Top 3 maybe even

Not the first time. They had some bigger guys like Byfuglein and Ladd, and most of the rest of the guys were not small like Brouwer, Bolland, Burish, Hossa, Sharp etc.

Most of your guys should be over 6 feet, preferably bigger.

[Street Pharmacist]

http://flamesnation.ca/2013/12/18/size-um-up

Been covered a few times, but size has little to no correlation to winning. Lots of caveats of course, but size is certainly not one of the most important factors

[jg13]

Sorry if I missed it but have rosters being released for the Penticton tournament yet?

[Caged Great]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

http://flamesnation.ca/2013/12/18/size-um-up

Been covered a few times, but size has little to no correlation to winning. Lots of caveats of course, but size is certainly not one of the most important factors

If you have a choice between two players that are roughly equivalently talented, I'd go with the bigger guy, but I wouldn't take an inferior guy just to get size.

It's like the debate from a few months ago with some people wanting Ritchie over everyone, even though he wasn't nearly as talented as anyone in the top 4, just because size. I was one of those railing against him even though I'm for bigger guys, because talent is the most important thing.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by jg13

Sorry if I missed it but have rosters being released for the Penticton tournament yet?

http://flames.nhl.com/club/news.htm?...id=DL|CGY|home

[getbak]

Originally Posted by AcGold

Anyone in our system that has potential to be our next Gio? I agree we need a top D-man to get a cup.

That's an interesting question given Gio's development path.

Five years ago, if you would have asked who the Flames stud defenceman getting Norris and Olympic team talk in 2014 would be, Gio would not have been most people's choice.

Culkin, Kulak, Sieloff, and Wotherspoon are all arguably in a better place in their development at the age of 20 or 21 than Gio was at the same age. Wotherspoon constantly impresses me with his play, and I think Culkin and Kulak are going to push each other to get better.

Plus, Brodie is still only 24 years-old, and he's further along in his development than Gio was at 24. Brodie has 185 NHL games and is fully established as an NHL player. At 24, Gio had 55 NHL games and went to play a year in Russia because the Flames weren't willing to give him a one-way contract.


There are no guarantees (hell, five years ago, we all were expecting Erixon to be the Flames stud d-man of the future), but there are some players who have the potential to develop like Gio did (granted, very very few players develop like Gio did).

[Freeway]

The thing with Giordano is that he was a sponge. He never got it into his head that he was talented, so he had to work his butt off to get into the league in the first place.

[Muta]

Here's an annoying tweet from our favourite local:

Dapper Don K ‏@khatinthekar Sep 9
�� RT @patersonjeff: #Canucks Shinkaruk on Penticton tourney: 'I expect to be one of the best players in the tournament if not the best'

... why can't Wolf be playing? Gosh darnit... hoefully Kanzig sends him sailing into the media level.

[MyFlamesFirst]

Originally Posted by Muta

Here's an annoying tweet from our favourite local:

Dapper Don K ‏@khatinthekar Sep 9
👌 RT @patersonjeff: #Canucks Shinkaruk on Penticton tourney: 'I expect to be one of the best players in the tournament if not the best'

... why can't Wolf be playing? Gosh darnit... hoefully Kanzig sends him sailing into the media level.

I am so happy we did not Draft that guy!!

[shogged]

Demonstrating the fine line between confidence and cockiness lol

[Gaskal]

Here's hoping Klimchuk makes him look stupid.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Muta

Here's an annoying tweet from our favourite local:

Dapper Don K ‏@khatinthekar Sep 9
�� RT @patersonjeff: #Canucks Shinkaruk on Penticton tourney: 'I expect to be one of the best players in the tournament if not the best'

... why can't Wolf be playing? Gosh darnit... hoefully Kanzig sends him sailing into the media level.

What arrogant SOB! I hope he fails badly in his attempt and has to eat some crow!

[ForeverFlameFan]

Hunter Smith should knock some sense into that kid.

[Tyler]

Had Bennett said the same thing, we would be gushing about his confidence and his possibility of making the Flames, and how that's what we need in the dressing room.

Perspective people.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

Hunter Smith should knock some sense into that kid.

The Hunter will become the hunted ... because the other Hunter will be the hunter.



Damn, name-based puns are tough.

[TheDebaser]

I hope Bennett messes with Shinkaruk all game.