Scottish independence referendum thread

[icarus]

With Scotland voting next week whether to stay in the UK or secede and with latest polls indicating it is too close to call, the media in the UK is (at last) in a frenzy.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/events/scotland-decides

I was in Scotland a month ago and don't think I met any separatists the entire 4.5 days I was there but then again I wasn't really prying. I did meet a few people who were admittedly in the 'No thanks' camp.

Things are definitely starting to feel like Canada in 1995 in the lead up to the last Quebec referendum.

I'm starting to get worried about how a 'Yes' vote would negatively affect the value of the pound and economy more generally in the rest of the UK. Markets don't like uncertainty and there still seems to be a lot of uncertainty of what an independent Scotland would look like in practice.

[terminator]

The right to self determination, finally the Scotts are getting partial Justice.

[_Q_]

Good for Scotland.

[Slava]

Good thread. I haven't really followed this until a few weeks ago. It's interesting and I agree it looks an awful lot like Quebec in 1995. Andrew Connecticut wrote a piece about that yesterday which was quite good. I would link it but I am on my phone.

[killer_carlson]

From what I have read, it seems to be a classic case of:

Voting with your head

vs

Voting with your heart

Will be interesting to watch from afar.

[trackercowe]

William Wallace approves of this.

[Barnet Flame]

There was next to nothing about this in the news (outside Scotland) until the last couple of weeks. This is despite the agreement to hold a legally binding ballot being made back in 2012.

At the time the design of the ballot was being agreed, the SNP proposed three options, the third being 'devo max' (more powers transferred from Westminster to Holyrood). Cameron rejected this out of hand. The result now is there is an all or nothing ballot.

Pretty much throughout the period, the 'No' camp held what appeared to be an unassailable lead. Consequently it seems there has been no preparation whatsoever of what to do if there is a 'Yes' vote. The 'No' camp, while I feel may still prevail - is in utter disarray.

The 'No' camp have largely peddled fear while the 'Yes' camp have been slickly run and have promised opportunity - whether realistic or not is up for conjecture. But the point is, the Westminster political establishment have pretty much mishandled the entire process. And this goes right back to Cameron's initial position where he refused to agree a third choice. What the 'No' camp are now saying is a vote for 'No' is essentially a vote for 'Devo max'. And while the campaign has been running since 2012, they've been saying this since....Sunday.

The UK government is so unpopular that watching on TV, you'd have thought we'd stepped back to 2010. Gordon Brown is now the figurehead (since yesterday) for the 'No' campaign. It is as if Gordon Brown is the PM now. To give you an idea of the level of profile Brown has maintained since he resigned the Labour leadership on 2010, I thought he'd left Parliament altogether.

Yet it is Brown who is setting out or promising what devolution will look like in the event of the decision being 'No'. It is he who is seemingly making up what devolution will look like, along with the timescale for the transition of additional powers to a devolved administration within the UK.

And these promises (there is a distinct lack of detail) that are being made up on the hoof are actually being made after postal voting has already started!

It has been a total mess, with no planning whatsoever on the part of the UK Government on what will happen in the event of a 'Yes' vote.

And it is now very very close according to the polls. That said, a better indication is the betting markets, and here it seems cut and dry that the result of the ballot will be No to independence.
http://www.oddschecker.com/politics/...rendum-outcome

[Coys1882]

Originally Posted by trackercowe

William Wallace approves of this.

As do the Proclaimers.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Coys1882

As do the Proclaimers.

pffft, any excuse to post this awesome song

Spoiler!

[jammies]

I have family in Scotland and they are unanimous in being rabidly for separation. Rabidly all the way to my aunt and one of my cousins saying they'll come to Canada to get out from under the tyrannical English if the referendum doesn't go their way.

Personally I think they are all crazy - there's no jackboots and secret police keeping them down under the limey yoke. Plus, my aunt was born here, then married (and subsequently divorced) a Scot, so she might be unpleasantly surprised if they separate and the kind of nationalistic yahoos that'll be in charge decide that she's Canadian/British, not Scottish, and she can GTFO.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Scottish independence has been such a dream for so long that it hardly seems real…which is what the English must have assumed. Now that the vote is close I have to say this is long overdue, as is Irish independence. There is such a long history of treating both the celtic nations with derision and downright abuse that I have a hard time understanding why they would want to stay part of the United Kingdom. As we did, they can remain part of the commonwealth and have a lot of association with England, but there's almost no purpose to remaining a part of the "country" when they are already a country internationally? I don't get why they wouldn't separate. It's time.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Cali Flames Fan

Scottish independence has been such a dream for so long that it hardly seems real…which is what the English must have assumed. Now that the vote is close I have to say this is long overdue, as is Irish independence. There is such a long history of treating both the celtic nations with derision and downright abuse that I have a hard time understanding why they would want to stay part of the United Kingdom. As we did, they can remain part of the commonwealth and have a lot of association with England, but there's almost no purpose to remaining a part of the "country" when they are already a country internationally? I don't get why they wouldn't separate. It's time.

Isn't Ireland it's own country?

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Isn't Ireland it's own country?

Presumably he meant Northern Ireland.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Presumably he meant Northern Ireland.

Ok that makes sense....but they are two different places.

[troutman]

Tommy: Doesn't it make you proud to be Scottish?

Mark "Rent-boy" Renton: It's ####E being Scottish! We're the lowest of the low. The scum of the ####ing Earth! The most wretched, miserable, servile, pathetic trash that was ever shat into civilization. Some hate the English. I don't. They're just wankers. We, on the other hand, are COLONIZED by wankers. Can't even find a decent culture to be colonized BY. We're ruled by effete #######s. It's a ####E state of affairs to be in, Tommy, and ALL the fresh air in the world won't make any ####ing difference!

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Ok that makes sense....but they are two different places.

And that is a true shame. Ireland should be one country, much like Korea and Dakota should be one place. The English have had a hand in why there are two separate countries at the moment.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Cali Flames Fan

And that is a true shame. Ireland should be one country, much like Korea and Dakota should be one place. The English have had a hand in why there are two separate countries at the moment.

Totally OT, but Ireland is an odd bird. In some sports there is one national Irish team (Ire and N. Ire.) and in others there is a split between Ire and N. Ire.


In short, #### you England!

[Coys1882]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

In short, #### you England!

Should have fought harder.

[Kjesse]

Originally Posted by Cali Flames Fan

Scottish independence has been such a dream for so long that it hardly seems real…which is what the English must have assumed. Now that the vote is close I have to say this is long overdue, as is Irish independence. There is such a long history of treating both the celtic nations with derision and downright abuse that I have a hard time understanding why they would want to stay part of the United Kingdom. As we did, they can remain part of the commonwealth and have a lot of association with England, but there's almost no purpose to remaining a part of the "country" when they are already a country internationally? I don't get why they wouldn't separate. It's time.

I read this entire post hearing in my head Mel Gibson doing a Scottish accent. And not on purpose, it just happened.

[Kjesse]

This will have repercussions for Quebec if it goes through and becomes a success. Ideas like this spread....