Matt Stajan and the future!

[Finger Cookin]

Originally Posted by Mike F

I've harped on this a number of times lately, but one glaring weakness for the Flames has been their inability to win faceoffs, and Stajan is a main culprit.

His faceoff % the last 2 years was 48.1 and 46.2.

An upgraded veteran 3rd line centre to mentor the young guys should have been a priority.

Here's the top 10 faceoff players for the Flames summed over the last four seasons, sorted by total faceoffs taken.

Matt Stajan	          Sum of Tot	        3350
	                  Average of FO%	49.4
Mikael Backlund	          Sum of Tot	        2889
	                  Average of FO%	47.2
Olli Jokinen	          Sum of Tot	        2498
	                  Average of FO%	47.0
Jarome Iginla	          Sum of Tot	        1083
	                  Average of FO%	51.5
Brendan Morrison	  Sum of Tot	        1060
	                  Average of FO%	50.0
Sean Monahan	          Sum of Tot	        1036
	                  Average of FO%	46.0
Mike Cammalleri	          Sum of Tot	         886
	                  Average of FO%	48.1
Roman Horak	          Sum of Tot	         647
	                  Average of FO%	29.0
David Moss	          Sum of Tot	         584
	                  Average of FO%	42.7
Joe Colborne	          Sum of Tot	         441
	                  Average of FO%	48.5

He's far and away taken the most faceoffs, and his percentage is the best of the centers save for Morrison. Singling Stajan out for faceoffs hardly seems warranted.

[stemit14]

I like keeping stajan around for the reasons listed so far. Plus I think it's valuable to have a guy who seems comfortable playing different roles on the team as the rebuild progresses. He wants to be here and is good in the locker room. He helps shelter the up-and coming centermen but it doesn't seem like he gets deterred when powerplay time gets given to those young guys instead.

He's a veteran centreman who knows the team well, understands the struggles they will go through in a rebuild but still wants to be part if it. I'm in no hurry to remove him from the picture.

[DoubleF]

Stajan is a good guy to have to help to develop the kids IMO. If you are worried about his uselessness, then maybe you can say he's helpful to for a shot for the top 3 for next year (McDavid, Eichel and Hanifin).

But the road looks open too. If Vets and Co lights it up this year, then maybe we won't get a good draft pick, but maybe we could attract a few young guns to take us the rest of the way to playoff contention via trading the vets. If vets and co suck, we get draft picks and the kids can learn what not to do from watching someone else rather than doing it themselves the hard way (like Edmonton).

I don't see Hartley as a "play the vets and bench the kids for a higher win ratio" sort of guy. I see him as a guy who wants the kids to develop. I personally feel like if our win% exceeds .500 he will puts the kids in with less sheltering for difficult challenges so they learn faster with less hit to their self confidence.

Wishful thinking?

[FAN]

Originally Posted by LouCypher

His attitude I feel is great for the team and we would be hard pressed to find another center who would play this role, with experience and be happy doing it.

That's actually one of the biggest problems I have with Stajan. The guy is ok with losing. People talk about him being a good mentor but personally, he isn't the type of veteran I want mentoring the kids. The guy hasn't made the playoffs in 9 years. The only time he played in the NHL playoffs was in his rookie year where he played 3 out of 13 games. This is the type of veteran you sign to fill a role, not to mentor the kids.

[mile]

Originally Posted by FAN

That's actually one of the biggest problems I have with Stajan. The guy is ok with losing. People talk about him being a good mentor but personally, he isn't the type of veteran I want mentoring the kids. The guy hasn't made the playoffs in 9 years. The only time he played in the NHL playoffs was in his rookie year where he played 3 out of 13 games. This is the type of veteran you sign to fill a role, not to mentor the kids.

Being a good mentor isn't necessarily solely based on prior playoff experience. A guy could have lots of playoff experience but not be a great mentor if they lack the attitude, patience, and work habits that is desired. Having the willingness to reach out to a kid, offer good advice, and leave a positive impression on them may not be a trait that is found in even the best of players. When I hear Monahan specifically saying Stajan is one of the guys he watches in order to improve his play, then why shouldn't he continue to mentor? Based on Stajan's play the last couple of years I don't see any reason why he shouldn't. His lack of playoff experience doesn't equate to being okay with losing - especially when I see how fired up he can be at times during games.

Any playoff experience becomes secondary if a player already has familiarity with the team, is committed to the idea of a rebuild (a trait that is probably harder to find with players who have played for contenders), and understands what management and coaches are looking for.

As far on his contract goes, I think he will gradually go from having a key role on the team to eventually a supporting role as the years pass. Having him as a 3rd/4th line veteran centre in the last years of his contract(if he isn't traded) isn't the worst idea in the world, especially if it helps our younger centres ease into the NHL by playing them on the wing.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by FAN

That's actually one of the biggest problems I have with Stajan. The guy is ok with losing...

What the hell does this even mean? Did Stajan make a statement to this effect at some point in his time in Calgary? Is this based on reports from those close to the team and within the Flames locker room? Is there something about Stajan that distinguishes him from other veterans like Giordano or Hudler as a player that is "ok [sic.] with losing"?

You have presented an opinion that boils down to basically this: He hasn't played for a playoff team in his career, ergo he is a bad influence on young players. What a preposterous leap.

[FAN]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

What the hell does this even mean? Did Stajan make a statement to this effect at some point in his time in Calgary? Is this based on reports from those close to the team and within the Flames locker room? Is there something about Stajan that distinguishes him from other veterans like Giordano or Hudler as a player that is "ok [sic.] with losing"?

You have presented an opinion that boils down to basically this: He hasn't played for a playoff team in his career, ergo he is a bad influence on young players. What a preposterous leap.

Didn't say he was a bad influence. You are putting words into my mouth. Please read more carefully. I said that's not the guy I want mentoring the kids because he isn't a winner. GMs, coaches, and players talk about championship experience all the time. It matters. You don't agree that's fine. Hudler has won a Cup before. If Hudler and Stajan are both talking about what it takes to win a Cup who do you listen to? Stajan? I don't think so. Stajan can barely talk about what the NHL playoffs are like and what to do to prepare for it.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by FAN

Didn't say he was a bad influence. You are putting words into my mouth. Please read more carefully. I said that's not the guy I want mentoring the kids because he isn't a winner...

That is a fairly poor approximation of what you actually said. On the contrary, you said that Stajan is "ok [sic.] with losing." You have essentially attributed to him some culpability in the matter of how motivated Stajan is to succeed. At this point, I need to ask: What exactly do you mean by a player being "okay with losing"?

[codynw]

Originally Posted by FAN

That's actually one of the biggest problems I have with Stajan. The guy is ok with losing. People talk about him being a good mentor but personally, he isn't the type of veteran I want mentoring the kids. The guy hasn't made the playoffs in 9 years. The only time he played in the NHL playoffs was in his rookie year where he played 3 out of 13 games. This is the type of veteran you sign to fill a role, not to mentor the kids.

Giordano has only played 4 playoff games in his career, are you okay with him "mentoring" the younger players? Does it seem like he is "okay with losing"?

I'm sorry, but that's a really dumb thing to say.

[kehatch]

Keep in mind that when the Flames signed Stajan we hadn't drafted Bennett, Monahan hadn't made the team, and we still didn't know what we had in Backlund.

Depending on how this season goes I could see Stajan dealt. If Monahan and Backlund are looking capable to carry the mail and a player like Granlund, Knight, etc look ready they may move him to make room.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by kehatch

Keep in mind that when the Flames signed Stajan we hadn't drafted Bennett, Monahan hadn't made the team, and we still didn't know what we had in Backlund.

Depending on how this season goes I could see Stajan dealt. If Monahan and Backlund are looking capable to carry the mail and a player like Granlund, Knight, etc look ready they may move him to make room.

Stajan exists so you can shelter Monahan now and Bennett in the future.

Backlund and Stajan can take the tougher match-ups and defensive zone face offs. Let those guys ease into the lineup.

[kehatch]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Stajan exists so you can shelter Monahan now and Bennett in the future.

Backlund and Stajan can take the tougher match-ups and defensive zone face offs. Let those guys ease into the lineup.

I know what he is there for. He is a buffer to insulate our prospects. But there are more players than just Bennett looking for NHL time at the C ice position. Many of them are potentially NHL ready now. I don't anticipate he is going anywhere immediately. But I wouldn't be shocked to see him moved at the TDL or next off season.

[Meers]

The words "Stajan" and "future" ideally should never appear in the same sentence.

He's a stop-gap and will need to be replace with a younger, cheaper, more effective two-way centre within the next season or two.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by FAN

Didn't say he was a bad influence. You are putting words into my mouth. Please read more carefully. I said that's not the guy I want mentoring the kids because he isn't a winner. GMs, coaches, and players talk about championship experience all the time. It matters. You don't agree that's fine. Hudler has won a Cup before. If Hudler and Stajan are both talking about what it takes to win a Cup who do you listen to? Stajan? I don't think so. Stajan can barely talk about what the NHL playoffs are like and what to do to prepare for it.

Being a "winner" is such a pile of crap when fans try to spew it around. There are some pretty obvious "winners" of the course of the leagues histories that's it's fair when a fan pulls out the "he's a winner card" because the player has such a track record of it and clearly had a huge role on the teams he won for that it's fair to say. Mark Messier for example, is a player any fan can confidently make an argument around as a "winner"...........leader on the teams he won on, won multiple times as a leader with different supporting casts (i.e. he didn't just win with Gretzky).

Hudler and Stajan................who's more of a winner? Who fricken knows. At this point in their careers, it's just as likely that Hudler was right place right time on a Wings club (that was very ok with letting him walk) that was full of actual winners as it is that Stajan has been wrong place wrong time on teams that simply aren't good enough. To suggest from our vantage point that any fan has a clue on whether Hudler or Stajan would be a better mentor based on their league history is just silly.

By that logic, you'd rather have Oliwa come back and mentor the kids on winning above the likes of Iginla or Kipper because he's won more cups. Makes no sense.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

Being a "winner" is such a pile of crap when fans try to spew it around. There are some pretty obvious "winners" of the course of the leagues histories that's it's fair when a fan pulls out the "he's a winner card" because the player has such a track record of it and clearly had a huge role on the teams he won for that it's fair to say. Mark Messier for example, is a player any fan can confidently make an argument around as a "winner"...........leader on the teams he won on, won multiple times as a leader with different supporting casts (i.e. he didn't just win with Gretzky).

Hudler and Stajan................who's more of a winner? Who fricken knows. At this point in their careers, it's just as likely that Hudler was right place right time on a Wings club (that was very ok with letting him walk) that was full of actual winners as it is that Stajan has been wrong place wrong time on teams that simply aren't good enough. To suggest from our vantage point that any fan has a clue on whether Hudler or Stajan would be a better mentor based on their league history is just silly.

By that logic, you'd rather have Oliwa come back and mentor the kids on winning above the likes of Iginla or Kipper because he's won more cups. Makes no sense.

Messier was a winner until he got to Vancouver. Then suddenly he wasn't anymore.

[Gaskal]

Looks like sh*t hit the FAN, lol. Sorry dude but you walked straight into that one.

[Anduril]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Messier was a winner until he got to Vancouver. Then suddenly he wasn't anymore.

Well... It is Vancouver after all.

The only scenario where we have to worry about Stajan is when our prospects don't develop and he's still in the top 6/9. Whether Stajan ends up toiling in the bottom 6 or being moved for assets, I don't see an issue where we have to move in anticipation of somebody making the immediate jump.

[Rick M.]

Originally Posted by kehatch

I know what he is there for. He is a buffer to insulate our prospects. But there are more players than just Bennett looking for NHL time at the C ice position. Many of them are potentially NHL ready now. I don't anticipate he is going anywhere immediately. But I wouldn't be shocked to see him moved at the TDL or next off season.

Does he have some kind of no trade clause in his contract?

[kehatch]

Originally Posted by Rick M.

Does he have some kind of no trade clause in his contract?

According to capgeek he has a modified NTC. Most likely he can pick a number of teams he won't agree to be traded to.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by kehatch

Keep in mind that when the Flames signed Stajan we hadn't drafted Bennett, Monahan hadn't made the team, and we still didn't know what we had in Backlund.

He signed his current contract on January 20.