The McDavid Sweepstakes: Who will win?

[djsFlames]

But would you bet on this crop of kids leading the team to dominance over the other giants in the brutal west? I wouldn't. Not yet. It's getting there, but what we really need to push us to have a real chance is another special player like Gaudreau that has that skill and the size to battle the big players. Bennett is good, very good. But he's not head and shoulders above the rest of the crop like Gaudreau has shown to be at every level he's played at. We need a player of McDavid/Eichel's elite skill to help bolster our forward lineup for a decade or more of contention. We shouldn't build to be like Anaheim or LA, but to be one better. What you want is a Crosby/Malkin like tandem down the middle with responsible, 200 foot players surrounding them. It's a dream to think about, but I don't want to settle for the group we have now, even if I feel moderately good about where they'll end up. I want to be as sure as these ####ers up north about our team, without the huge delusional factor playing in, because we know for a fact that we've got a group of total studs that'll rip the league a new one. Don't you?

Okay okay ...Back to earth now...

[Jets4Life]

I have a really bad feeling that the Oilers are going to win the draft, and select McDavid.

[Pontine]

Originally Posted by Jets4Life

I have a really bad feeling that the Oilers are going to win the draft, and select McDavid.

Or the Canucks... neither of them can win!

[GettinIggyWithIt]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I totally agree, and it would be amazing for the Flames to have the opportunity to draft one of him or Eichel. Having said that, the very likely scenario that sees the Flames outside of the top-three picks in the 2015 draft should not be viewed as some sort of set back or failure. The Calgary Flames do not need McDavid to be successful. It is helpful, yes. But they are still in the process of assembling a fairly impressive collection of talent (which, by the way, is already substantially better than "a good crop of solid 2nd and 3rd liners") that should make an NHL impact even without McDavid.

McDavid or Eichel would be a great addition to the rebuild. We would be better with either of them than without them obviously. But I completely agree, I think the Flames finishing out of the bottom 3 is unlikely. Last year they were 10 points out of 28th and 11 points out of 19th overall. I am not saying that they will be significantly better but I think this team stands a better chance of being in the 22-26 range. Some teams have gotten better, some have gotten worse. Some will struggle and others will surprise. My gut tells me the Flames will not be in the bottom 3 but somewhere between bottom 5-10.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

But would you bet on this crop of kids leading the team to dominance over the other giants in the brutal west? I wouldn't. Not yet.

Of course not, and that is because—as you have pointed out—the Flames are an unfinished product.

Originally Posted by djsFlames

It's getting there, but what we really need to push us to have a real chance is another special player like Gaudreau that has that skill and the size to battle the big players. Bennett is good, very good. But he's not head and shoulders above the rest of the crop like Gaudreau has shown to be at every level he's played at. We need a player of McDavid/Eichel's elite skill to help bolster our forward lineup for a decade or more of contention.

Here is where I disagree. If the reports are true, then "a player of McDavis/Eichel's elite skill" is essentially limited to one or the other, and with the likely chance that there will not be another player as good in the draft in the near future. The Flames DO NOT need one of them. The LA Kings drafted Kopitar, Dustin Brown and Tyler Toffoli. They traded for and added forwards like Richards, Carter, and Williams, but NOT ONE of these players was touted to be a generational level talent in the same way that Eichel and McDavid are talked about. The Blackhawks drafted Toews and Kane, and added Hossa and Sharp to their forward core, and again, NOT ONE of these players was considered "elite" in the same sense as McDavid and Eichel in their draft years.

The point is that the Flames need to draft well. They need high skill players, and they need to be able to distribute them through their lineup, and to on occasion use them as assets in trades for smartly adding pieces to the core. The team's success does not depend on one player.

Originally Posted by djsFlames

We shouldn't build to be like Anaheim or LA, but to be one better. What you want is a Crosby/Malkin like tandem down the middle with responsible, 200 foot players surrounding them...

Sure, but the Flames can still be successful with a Bergeron/Krejci or a Kopitar/Carter down the middle.

*EDIT* I re-read your last comment, and felt that it deserved a more complete response. Yes, it would be amazing to be able to build a team like LA or Anaheim and also with a Crosby/Malkin tandem, but like you pointed out yourself, this is a pipe dream. That sort of depth is just not sustainable in the cap-era NHL, and is a big reason why Pittsburgh has struggled to have much playoff success in the past two or three years. So, given the choice between Pittsburg depth at centre OR a more complete team like in Boston, LA, Chicago or St.Louis, I will happily go in the direction of the latter. Yes, it would be amazing for the Flames to draft a player like McDavid, but even if they do not, the future is still very bright, and by building smart they can still be successful without him.

[Lanny_McDonald]

McDavid and Eichel have everyone licking their chops, but I firmly believe the best option fro the Flames could be Hanifin. We have a glut of centers and are in dire need of a stud defenseman. If we win the lottery do the Flames take one of the centers and deal one of their prospects for help? Or would they trade down, get a bounty of pieces in a deal, and then take Hanifin? The options are interesting.

[Poe969]

I think if the Flames won the lottery they would have to take McDavid. Trading the #1 pick would haunt them for ever if McDavid turns into the player most think he will. If we could manage to get McDavid than trading away another center or moving them to the wing would be the best thing to do but McDavid-Monahan-Bennett would be amazing in a few years.... having too many centers is never a problem.

I agree that Hanafin would be great for this team but out of the top 3, he's still my third choice.

[Lanny_McDonald]

I think when Quebec traded away Lindros they set up their franchise for 10+ years of success. There are no guarantees a kid hyped as a generational talent is going to be just that. I'm skeptical that McDavid will be that good.

[Poe969]

Very true. I guess if a team wants to over pay any player or pick should be available. It would have to be an amazing package though that would help them in more than one position. I do think that the reason the pens aren't as great as they should be is because of Malkin; if they traded him they would get a kings ransom that would really help them get better in more than one position.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by New Era

I think when Quebec traded away Lindros they set up their franchise for 10+ years of success. There are no guarantees a kid hyped as a generational talent is going to be just that. I'm skeptical that McDavid will be that good.

The Lindros trade is a really interesting beast. By itself, I think it is vastly overrated in terms of impact in turning the Nordiques/Avalanche franchise around. It was, however, part of a series of smart, and occasionally fortunate, moves that demonstrate how building a successful franchise requires good drafting, smart trading and a lot of luck.

The Lindros deal ultimately boiled down to Peter Forsberg and a bunch of role players, most of whom were gone within a year or two. Mike Ricci was a useful player for the Nords/Avs for six seasons. But while Steve Duchesne played a major role in Quebec's immediate turnaround in 1992-93, they traded him to St. Louis after one season for some magic beans. Ron Hextall was also useful in 92-93, and the Nords did better in trading him after one year - he was turned into a first rounder that became Adam Deadmarsh.

But in terms of the franchise's following decade, they had Joe Sakic already from the 1987 draft. They already had Adam Foote from the 1989 draft. They had Mats Sundin whom they traded for Sylvan Lefebvre and Wendel Clark. The former was a serviceable defenceman, the latter was turned into Claude Lemieux after one season. They had Owen Nolan, who was turned into Sandis Osolinsh.

Stephane Yelle was acquired from New Jersey for almost literally nothing. Valeri Kamenski was a 7th round pick that came into his own. First round bust Brian Fogarty was turned into Scott Young. And, of course, Pat Roy had a really bad night against Detroit that altered the course of NHL history.

[icecube]

Originally Posted by Poe969

Very true. I guess if a team wants to over pay any player or pick should be available. It would have to be an amazing package though that would help them in more than one position. I do think that the reason the pens aren't as great as they should be is because of Malkin; if they traded him they would get a kings ransom that would really help them get better in more than one position.

Malkin won the Conn Smythe. The Penguins don't have three cups if he's not on the team.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by AcGold

I don't get why people compare Mcdavid to Crosby though, Crosby had more than 3 points per game in his junior days. Mcdavid has less than 2, odds of him reaching Crosby's level are small? No?

I don't know that people compare him to Crosby so much as call him the best prospect to come along since Crosby.

Originally Posted by New Era

McDavid and Eichel have everyone licking their chops, but I firmly believe the best option fro the Flames could be Hanifin. We have a glut of centers and are in dire need of a stud defenseman.

While I agree that the Flames are in dire need of a stud defenceman, I don't think Hanifin would be their best option. If you pick top two, you take McDavid or Eichel.

However, the fact that Hanifin and Kylington are on the board makes me far more comfortable about the draft than I might be otherwise. Draft top 2 and the Flames get a franchise forward. Draft 3-4th and they get a stud defenceman. Hanifin would have been taken higher than Ekblad if he was in the same draft, and Kylington sounds like another fantastic prospect.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by icecube

Malkin won the Conn Smythe. The Penguins don't have three cups if he's not on the team.

Sure, but Malkin's excellent performances in the playoffs are also a good reason to trade him. His Conn Smythe trophy isn't doing the Penguins any good at the moment, but it could potentially mean more to the team in a trade. I think the past two seasons have illustrated with abundant clarity that the current model in Pittsburgh is not working, and that they are almost certainly better off drawing from a top-heavy roster to provide a more even distribution on the back end.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

...the fact that Hanifin and Kylington are on the board makes me far more comfortable about the draft than I might be otherwise. Draft top 2 and the Flames get a franchise forward. Draft 3-4th and they get a stud defenceman. Hanifin would have been taken higher than Ekblad if he was in the same draft, and Kylington sounds like another fantastic prospect.

I very much like the sound of this. Furthermore, it serves to reinforce my own feelings that the Flames will do very well in the upcoming draft regardless of what happens in the lottery. I am confident that the team is a good bet for a bottom-five finish, which will produce a hell of a player for them.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Poe969

Very true. I guess if a team wants to over pay any player or pick should be available. It would have to be an amazing package though that would help them in more than one position. I do think that the reason the pens aren't as great as they should be is because of Malkin; if they traded him they would get a kings ransom that would really help them get better in more than one position.

Except who can afford to give up that return? To trade Malkin you need him to agree to it, if he does he will want to go to a contender. What contending team can afford to give up a kings ransom for him without becoming a none contender? Then it has to work cap wise as well. It would be a very tough trade to pull off.