Its illegal for security guards to use a CLOSED hand attack. Even if they are attacked first, an open palm is acceptable tho.I was looking into this when I was going to get my security license to pick up some extra cash for the household.
Seriously. Just stop posting.
Security Training Manual
Slapping is the only acceptable use of force option.
The defense of this dumba$$ is a little ridiculous.
Police have said, based on the evidence they have, if charges are laid, they will not be against the bouncers.
So wether the Security training manual says they can only slap a person in defense or not, in the real world, the police, who enforce the laws, are on the side of the bouncers who closed their fists and beat this guy for being a moron.
Both this thread, and the guy in Edmonton who got beat by Wal-Mart LPO's are ridiculous. So many people defending the dummies who got themselves beat up, and a lot of it is, "well LPO's and Bouncers aren't allowed to do that".
If Wal-Mart and bars staffed Police officers as security, since they are apparently the only law enforcement officials with any real rights, the guy at Wal-Mart would have either been shot, or at least tased and beaten after stabbing a cop. And the guy at Jameson's would have been tossed around and arrested long before he was even asked to leave the bar, or tackled and cuffed after uttering death threats, or again tased and beaten pretty good after assaulting an officer.
It's insane the amount of backlash these severely underpaid "enforcers" are receiving for roughing up a couple dummies, when it would have been far worse if it was the cops involved.
....
I'm too old to care about it personally now, but bouncers are generally arogant and racist pricks.
Management is in control of who their bouncers let into bars. Your problem should be with them. Just saying as an ex-bouncer years ago. I was actually surprised by almost all the guys I worked with how serious they took the job. I was just there to meet girls..
Quote:
Originally Posted by combustiblefuel
Its illegal for security guards to use a CLOSED hand attack. Even if they are attacked first, an open palm is acceptable tho.I was looking into this when I was going to get my security license to pick up some extra cash for the household.
Bouncers are not security guards, there is no training you have to take. (It may help tho) Bouncers are there to intimidate patrons into keeping civil. Holding them up to standards of professional security or the Police is absurd. They are normal civilians.
Bouncers are not security guards, there is no training you have to take. (It may help tho) Bouncers are there to intimidate patrons into keeping civil. Holding them up to standards of professional security or the Police is absurd. They are normal civilians.
I wonder if there should be a course.
IIRC, bartenders need to have training, I think Proserve?
If training for bartenders is needed, it would seem to be logical that some training for bouncers should be needed.
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Captain James P. DeCOSTE, CD, 18 Sep 1993
IIRC, bartenders need to have training, I think Proserve?
If training for bartenders is needed, it would seem to be logical that some training for bouncers should be needed.
bouncers need proserve too I think, I already had mine if I recall. But really that is an online quiz that takes 10 mins to do. I guessed at the answers the first time without doing the required reading and passed.
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bouncers need proserve too I think, I already had mine if I recall. But really that is an online quiz that takes 10 mins to do. I guessed at the answers the first time without doing the required reading and passed.
Thanked for nothing....
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Captain James P. DeCOSTE, CD, 18 Sep 1993
Corporal Jean-Marc H. BECHARD, 6 Aug 1993
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Security Training Manual
Slapping is the only acceptable use of force option.
Not slapping, palm strikes. Palm strikes are just as effective and you don't break your hand.
Maybe instead of being hostile take a second to think about the post.
The fact that you find someone getting so badly beat up "awesome" is really messed up.
... and I completely understand that "if this was in Eastern Europe"....
I hear nothing about long term injuries or hospitalization or anything of the sorts. He got messed up, sure, but that's exactly what he deserves. Have you ever seen how much blood comes out of a split eyebrow or a broken nose?
Not slapping, palm strikes. Palm strikes are just as effective and you don't break your hand.
Maybe instead of being hostile take a second to think about the post.
Location: A simple man leading a complicated life....
Exp:
Quote:
Originally Posted by polak
I hear nothing about long term injuries or hospitalization or anything of the sorts. He got messed up, sure, but that's exactly what he deserves. Have you ever seen how much blood comes out of a split eyebrow or a broken nose?
Yup I still think he deserves it.
Did you read the OP's link?
Quote:
“He did sustain some quite serious injuries, traumatic in nature,” Loria said.
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I worked in a bar and had my share of dummies that needed help leaving. As many people in that profession will say, punching people hurts your hands (which break easily), blood sucks and getting sucker punched is the worst. What most of that means is get people out as early and quickly as possible and if you can avoid ever punching anything, even better. Dragging someone out because they now can't walk is a pain, getting them to walk out and carry their own weight, even if you are forcing them, is way better.
Pulling people apart from each other sucks as well, especially the ladies.
Anyway, I didn't watch the video (was there one?), but so far it sounds like bouncer(s) 1 tough guy 0.
Probably lessons learned from both sides.
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I hope you get the custom user title "Protector of Bouncers".
I'm too old to care about it personally now, but bouncers are generally arogant and racist pricks.
Ridiculous. Having been one, I used to go around to other clubs with club courtesy and got to know a lot of them during my time as a doorman at Curly's. The vast majority of them are good people, doing a pretty difficult job at the best of times surrounded by people over drinking, damaging property, harming others, and the abuse you take as a doorman is quite amazing.
I've seen so many brawls and fights, the vast majority of which the doormen did two things, swarm and get people outside the bar, our obligation was to first stop the fight and second protect the patrons and the bar by getting them the hell out as quickly and safely as possible.
The irony is you get used to the verbal abuse, threats, and develop a pretty thick skin, most doormen it takes a lot to get them to respond with violence because of that, these guys at this particular bar let this guy get away with a lot and ONLY responded after he threatened to come back with a knife and then returned later and attacked them AGAIN.
If there is a case of abuse, then lets call it out, but this is NOT one of the times the doormen are the problem, this guy has to be held accountable for his actions.
As for your sweeping generalizations, like in all jobs there are idiots on power trips in this field, you are as a rule trying to deter idiots from causing problems by making them aware of your presence and knowing there will be consequences to them, this is why a lot of them seem cold and arrogant and not cheery and friendly.
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Last edited by Thor; 09-05-2014 at 04:37 AM.
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Ridiculous. Having been one, I used to go around to other clubs with club courtesy and got to know a lot of them during my time as a doorman at Curly's. The vast majority of them are good people, doing a pretty difficult job at the best of times surrounded by people over drinking, damaging property, harming others, and the abuse you take as a doorman is quite amazing.
I've seen so many brawls and fights, the vast majority of which the doormen did two things, swarm and get people outside the bar, our obligation was to first stop the fight and second protect the patrons and the bar by getting them the hell out as quickly and safely as possible.
The irony is you get used to the verbal abuse, threats, and develop a pretty thick skin, most doormen it takes a lot to get them to respond with violence because of that, these guys at this particular bar let this guy get away with a lot and ONLY responded after he threatened to come back with a knife and then returned later and attacked them AGAIN.
If there is a case of abuse, then lets call it out, but this is NOT one of the times the doormen are the problem, this guy has to be held accountable for his actions.
As for your sweeping generalizations, like in all jobs there are idiots on power trips in this field, you are as a rule trying to deter idiots from causing problems by making them aware of your presence and knowing there will be consequences to them, this is why a lot of them seem cold and arrogant and not cheery and friendly.
You must have been the 1 one type of boncer I never met. ALso remember this is Canada, we're far removed for you guys as far as the social evolutionary chain goes.
By accountable do you mean bashing his head in? Knocking the guy across the pavement more then once? It seems as if power trips is all bouncers are on in Calgary.
And one thing no one can change my mind on is that bouncers in Calgary are jackass, racist pricks. I spent my youth getting turned down from clubs simply because of the color of my skin. Hell I did'nt even drink then and was 3-4 times I was too drunk to enter? I did'nt even drink. I've seen this same systematic racisim employed on all minorities, biggest reason I never get into the club scene.......because I could'nt. I blame the bouncers just as much as the racist management.
Last edited by terminator; 09-05-2014 at 08:30 AM.
I lived in Calgary for over 20 years, so I can't really speak much on Icelandic doormen, although I'm sure from what I have seen is a similar thing here.
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And one thing no one can change my mind on is that bouncers in Calgary are jackass, racist pricks. I spent my youth getting turned down from clubs simply because of the color of my skin. Hell I did'nt even drink then
Oh no, the loss of a customer who wasn't going to spend any money anyway.
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Wow this is about as close to a "#### the coloureds" post as I've seen here.
No, the poster said he didn't drink back then, therefore he wouldn't have been spending money.
I worked as a doorman at a couple places during University here in Calgary. I had to take training on effective holds and how to safely escort unruly customers out without excess force. We had officers from the remand center run this course each year.
I worked for the U of C, if anyone hit a patron they would be fired unless there was no other recourse. In 5 years of working door, and concerts I never saw any bouncer hit a patron. There was one incident that I didn't see, but the bouncer was immediately fired.
I worked at a couple other bars here and there and didn't ever see a bouncer hit anyone or act racist. There are bouncers that are racist ego maniacs, but that certainly isn't all of them. Terminator had a couple bad experiences from the sounds of but I think everyone has run into issues with people in every service job, bartenders, servers, etc..
Sounds like the doormen were justified in this situation, they probably could have let up, but I certainly don't feel bad for the drunk moron.
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