Police investigate after violent video of Wal-Mart takedown
I have no issue with them engaging him and takin him down with force. What I do have a problem with are the additional shots to the head and taunting once he was down.
At that point, they crossed the line from doing their job to assault.
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No, not at all. Why should someone be allowed to defend themself when they get jumped by a couple meatheads in a parking lot? What a ridiculous concept.
Yeah, we should all be allowed to carry concealed weapons and use them, especially when we've committed a crime.
I have no issue with them engaging him and takin him down with force. What I do have a problem with are the additional shots to the head and taunting once he was down.
At that point, they crossed the line from doing their job to assault.
I don't care about the taunting and the shot to the head seemed pretty minor to me considering the guy was armed with a knife, had stabbed someone and was continuing to fight.
He didn't pull the knife until he was already being attacked. One could argue it was self-defense.
It's also possible he didn't even shoplift. Doesn't appear that's even being taken into consideration here. I'm sure he did, but at the time, it would only be a suspicion, and this level of force seems extreme.
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He didn't pull the knife until he was already being attacked. One could argue it was self-defense.
One could, but that would be a foolish argument. He wasn't being attacked, he was resisting arrest. Pulling a weapon in that situation is not self-defence, it is a felony crime.
No, not at all. Why should someone be allowed to defend themself when they get jumped by a couple meatheads in a parking lot? What a ridiculous concept.
It's not shown but I could say with about 99% certainty they didn't jump him. SOP would be to approach, Identify and accompany back to the store. Would suggest this guy tried to run/fight instead of follow directions.
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Originally Posted by codynw
It wasn't even a real knife, he used a box cutter. A set of keys (something everyone carries) could have done just as much, if not more damage.
Box cutters are what the terrorists had on them when they took down the planes on 9/11. So to say they're not even a real knife is straight up ridiculous.
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One could, but that would be a foolish argument. He wasn't being attacked, he was resisting arrest. Pulling a weapon in that situation is not self-defence, it is a felony crime.
He wasn't resisting arrest. As much as they probably like to think they are, those guys are not cops.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CroFlames
Before you call me a pessimist or a downer, the Flames made me this way. Blame them.
Are LCOs at Wal-Mart trained on how to arrest a subject properly? Until reading this thread, I've always (apparently erroneously) believed that mall security guards did not have the authority to forcefully arrest suspects; they could only follow them and report to local law enforcement. I'm not entirely comfortable with what I assume to be poorly-trained mall cops having the authority and mandate to physically detain suspected shoplifters.
And before anyone goes down that path, NO, I am not by any means defending a criminal with this comment.
He wasn't resisting arrest. As much as they probably like to think they are, those guys are not cops.
LPOs are legally authorized to detain people. "Resisting arrest" might be the wrong exact terminology, but that would simply be case of arguing semantics The thief has no legal right to use a weapon to resist. Again, he was not acting in self-defence. That was straight-up assault with a deadly weapon.
He wasn't resisting arrest. As much as they probably like to think they are, those guys are not cops.
They have the authority to detain without warrent, that's not a bad start
I think where things break down is that they probably pay these guys peanuts, so it ends up looking like this, an episode of trailer park boys when a guy that lives next door to the suspect is trying to arrest.
LPOs are legally authorized to detain people. "Resisting arrest" might be the wrong exact terminology, but that would simply be case of arguing semantics The thief has no legal right to use a weapon to resist. Again, he was not acting in self-defence. That was straight-up assault with a deadly weapon.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoho
They have the authority to detain without warrent, that's not a bad start
They are Wal Mart employees, why do they have that authority? That's garbage, and I would never respect that.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CroFlames
Before you call me a pessimist or a downer, the Flames made me this way. Blame them.
Are LCOs at Wal-Mart trained on how to arrest a subject properly? Until reading this thread, I've always (apparently erroneously) believed that mall security guards did not have the authority to forcefully arrest suspects; they could only follow them and report to local law enforcement. I'm not entirely comfortable with what I assume to be poorly-trained mall cops having the authority and mandate to physically detain suspected shoplifters.
And before anyone goes down that path, NO, I am not by any means defending a criminal with this comment.
Mall Security (or Security forces in general) and LPO's are two different things.
Yes, they are authorized to detain without a warrant, and yes they can physically grab you.
Can't they (or their employers) be sued for wrongful arrest if it turns out that he hadn't shoplifted?
That one business law class I took in my first year was a while ago but I seem to remember this. I'm pretty sure even Peace Offers can't detain someone without the risk of wrongful arrest.
He didn't pull the knife until he was already being attacked. One could argue it was self-defense.
It's also possible he didn't even shoplift. Doesn't appear that's even being taken into consideration here. I'm sure he did, but at the time, it would only be a suspicion, and this level of force seems extreme.
LPO: Excuse me, we think you stole something back there.
Me: Nope.
LPO: do you mind coming back so we can take a look at you bag?
Me: Sure, I got nothing to hide.
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Captain James P. DeCOSTE, CD, 18 Sep 1993
Police investigate after violent video of Wal-Mart takedown
