Men-only barber shop controversy

[wittynickname]

Originally Posted by pylon

Photon, I normally agree with you, and what you have to say, but you keep saying that.

By saying that, you are saying that my rights and reputation should be affected by a stereotype cast on all men, because of a minority of pigs. It is not about me, it is about everyone.

In a weird way, my argument argues more for equality, than a lot of other posts in this thread.

Equality means equal for everyone, that is what I am arguing for. However having men's or women's only businesses is anything but equality.

Women get gyms all to themselves.

Men get Fortune 500 CEO jobs. Men get to make more money. Men deal with less harassment. Men get big promotions. Men don't have anyone trying to restrict their access to sexual healthcare.

But no, women getting to go to Curves totally puts men at a disadvantage.

[Regorium]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

And here is a followup from someone who fully admits he was once one of the worst offenders, and while he now sees that it is wrong, he understands where it comes from.
http://badassdigest.com/2014/08/31/w...ergate-gamers/

Zoey Quinn is what is wrong with "feminism". I can't believe that author would equate Anita to Zoey.

Zoey used her body (ie. for sex) in order to get ahead. Is that what feminists really want to be a part of? Frankly, she set back feminism in games 15 years by doing what she did.

[wittynickname]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Yeah, and the service she wanted wasn't available at this one either. What's the big deal?

There are positives and negatives to both genders. I'm sick of this half-assed attempt at making feminism relevant. Attack an actual issue if you're going to carry the feminist flag, don't make a stink about not being able to have your hair cut the way you want it at a specific barber.

Hell, I'm outraged that the other hair styling places wouldn't provide her the service she wanted. Just because they don't have the skillset to cut that particular style of hair doesn't mean they shouldn't just cut her hair anyways! It's not like they have an option on who they get to provide service to or anything.

So if you own a foreign car that needs specific parts, you're going to demand that an autobody that doesn't deal with those parts/makes of vehicle fix your car anyway?

The service did exist where she went. She wanted a men's cut. They do men's cuts. Other salons could've cut her hair, sure, but not in the way she wanted it cut. Haircutting is not that easy, kids. It involves skill and education and hard work and talent.

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by Regorium

Zoey Quinn is what is wrong with "feminism". I can't believe that author would equate Anita to Zoey.

Zoey used her body (ie. for sex) in order to get ahead. Is that what feminists really want to be a part of? Frankly, she set back feminism in games 15 years by doing what she did.

If you read that article you'll discover that probably isn't true. Trusting the word of an exboyfriend probably isn't a reliable source. It also sounds like the guy she potentially slept with didn't even review her game. Besides, if item two is correct, what business is it of anyone who she slept with. Slut shaming.

[photon]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern

Now, what if there men in this barber shop that said the presence of a woman was making them feel uncomfortable and they specifically go there to be in a man only atmosphere and enjoy the privacy.

Then they can go somewhere private, meet up in one dude's place. In general being in a public places means it is unreasonable to expect to be isolated from others based on gender, race, orientation, etc.. If a specific gender or race makes one uncomfortable, then don't go out in public.

The exception being special cases where discrimination is justified.

[Arya Stark]

Originally Posted by wittynickname

This woman wanted her hair cut by a barber because she wanted a specific haircut that is likely only going to be done correctly by a barber. The service she is looking to get is not something she is going to get at another salon. She went to this barber shop based on wanting a service that this barber shop offers that she could not get elsewhere.

Is there something you would like to do at Spalady that you cannot do at another similar but unisex place? No. It's petulant "but they get it, I want it."

By all means, if you want to deal with all the crappy parts of being a woman: catcalls on the street, harassment at work, getting turned down for promotions because of gender, making less money because you don't have xy chromosomes, etc, I'll happily hand over all of that and let you also work out at Spalady.

FYI all people who do hair go to the same type of school and learn the same thing.

There are many barbers who work out of salons.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by rubecube

No one is stereotyping all men. Where do you keep getting this idea from? The complaint is "enough men have caused us harm that we'd rather not take our chances." It has nothing to do with you unless you are the one causing harm.

That is a stereotype, perhaps the very definition of it, it is making a massive assumption.

A certain type of person has done something, therefore all people similar to them are capable of the same thing.

That is no different than pulling aside all brown people in a security line in an airport, because a some brown people hi-jacked planes 10 years ago. "One brown person did it, so we better frisk all of them, because brown people are more likely to blow up a plane."

It is just as divisive. And just as wrong.

[ExiledFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by pylon

Photon, I normally agree with you, and what you have to say, but you keep saying that.

By saying that, you are saying that my rights and reputation should be affected by a stereotype cast on all men, because of a minority of pigs. It is not about me, it is about everyone.

In a weird way, my argument argues more for equality, than a lot of other posts in this thread.

Equality means equal for everyone, that is what I am arguing for. However having men's or women's only businesses is anything but equality.

Very interesting way of viewing it. Since some men(very few) are rapists it's OK to discriminate against all men.

[Arya Stark]

Originally Posted by photon

Not everything is about you.

And nobody said it was.

This is about equality.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Arya Stark

FYI all people who do hair go to the same type of school and learn the same thing.

There are many barbers who work out of salons.

Yes, the woman who went to school and does this for a living knows less about the business than you, random dude on the internet with probably zero background. You're doing a great puckluck imitation today.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by wittynickname

The service did exist where she went. She wanted a men's cut. They do men's cuts. Other salons could've cut her hair, sure, but not in the way she wanted it cut. Haircutting is not that easy, kids. It involves skill and education and hard work and talent.

That's like telling an artist to paint on a glass wall instead of a proper canvas.

You make my point for me - giving a "men's cut" to a females head is not the same as giving a "men's cut" to a males head. Haircutting is not that easy, kids. It involves skill and education and hard and talent.

[wittynickname]

Originally Posted by Arya Stark

FYI all people who do hair go to the same type of school and learn the same thing.

There are many barbers who work out of salons.

Not in the state of PA. Barbers get different, specialized training, and stylists get different training. You do not actually do hair for a living, I'd imagine, so please stop condescending to me about my career, thanks.

Originally Posted by ExiledFlamesFan

Very interesting way of viewing it. Since some men(very few) are rapists it's OK to discriminate against all men.

Discrimination is not being able to go to one place? One single place that is a safe space for women?

I don't think you actually know what discrimination is.

[Stanathan]

This thread has solved nothing except that I now no longer get Pylon and Photon confused for eachother.

[To Be Quite Honest]

Originally Posted by pylon

Photon, I normally agree with you, and what you have to say, but you keep saying that.

By saying that, you are saying that my rights and reputation should be affected by a stereotype cast on all men, because of a minority of pigs. It is not about me, it is about everyone.

In a weird way, my argument argues more for equality, than a lot of other posts in this thread.

Equality means equal for everyone, that is what I am arguing for. However having men's or women's only businesses is anything but equality.

This is it. This is something I was trying to get across (poorly). The fact that it is okay to call all men with a wide brush. There are horrible people in this world, for sure, but we need to stop hating on everyone.

The Barber should have given the woman the men's style hair cut if he was capable. Just some thoughts here as I'm trying to look at it from his perspective. People have sued over bad hair cuts. Could he have been protecting his business? Did something horrible happen to him and because of that horrible thing is he not emotionally able too cut a woman's hair? People may be quick to call him a d-bag but maybe he's just really hurt. Or should he just be a man and get over it.

[FlamesAddiction]

One of my good friends goes to Curves. She is a lesbian and says she goes there because a lot of other lesbians go there and she can flirt with other girls.

So, just because it is an all girls gym, it doesn't mean that you aren't being sized up...

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by pylon

That is a stereotype, perhaps the very definition of it, it is making a massive assumption.

A certain type of person has done something, therefore all people similar to them are capable of the same thing.

That is no different than pulling aside all brown people in a security line in an airport, because a some brown people hi-jacked planes 10 years ago. "One brown person did it, so we better frisk all of them, because brown people are more likely to blow up a plane."

It is just as divisive. And just as wrong.

It's not just one person 10 years ago, it's millions of people every god damn day. 1 in 4, 25%, that is a lot of god damn women being assaulted on a daily basis. That is a lot of men assaulting women on a daily basis, and yet when women don't take steps to protect themselves, they basically get told "Well you clearly didn't take enough steps to protect yourself, your fault," and now when they are taking steps to protect themselves it's "Well now you're stereotyping all men." They are figuratively screwed either way.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by Arya Stark

FYI all people who do hair go to the same type of school and learn the same thing.

There are many barbers who work out of salons.

Do some of you not even read the thread before posting?

It's already been confirmed by at least two people who are either hair stylists themselves or know someone who is that this is a highly specialized cut that most unisex salon workers are not trained to perform. It requires the use of a straight razor, so that rules out non-barbers. It's also a relatively new style that "old school" barbers wouldn't know how to do properly.

See this post: http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showpos...2&postcount=30
And this one: http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showpos...2&postcount=40
And this one: http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showpos...1&postcount=47
And this one: http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showpos...0&postcount=53

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by driveway

The woman who sought the haircut was clearly seeking a very specific, traditionally men's style. Why wouldn't she go to a hair salon which had the most experience in executing this haircut?

From the article:


Bad business on the part of Ragged Ass Barbers.

I'm really interested in taking a spin class, and I've heard that Spa Lady is the best there is at doing those classes. Do you think I should call to inquire about membership prices first, or should I just show up with my lawyer and see what kind of deal I can get?

[Coach]

Originally Posted by rubecube

No one is stereotyping all men. Where do you keep getting this idea from? The complaint is "enough men have caused us harm that we'd rather not take our chances." It has nothing to do with you unless you are the one causing harm.

How is that different than a shop refusing to serve black people because they have had black people rob their store before?

"Rather not take the chance."

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

That's like telling an artist to paint on a glass wall instead of a proper canvas.

You make my point for me - giving a "men's cut" to a females head is not the same as giving a "men's cut" to a males head. Haircutting is not that easy, kids. It involves skill and education and hard and talent.

Women are also more likely to become upset with a bad hair cut than a man. I have seen women cry over hair cuts... I have yet to see a man do that.