Men-only barber shop controversy

[PIMking]

the woman is just looking to start a ruckus. "find something that offends me and scream from the rooftops"

jebus...

cant do a damn thing anymore without someones little feelings being hurt

[Chill Cosby]

Originally Posted by pylon

I am not saying it is wrong to exclude men from a business, I get why it is done.

However, if you take gender inequality and misogyny out, how can a women's business do the same thing carte blanche, without the same repercussions? Why is there not outrage from the mens side about us being excluded, I never see it.

I think probably because (most) men get it. We understand the logical reasons why these things occur. Males are still (even as far along as we are with equality) the dominant gender, and we pretty much have a controlling say in what goes on in most go the western world.

We understand that some men can be rude pigs that harshly judge the physical appearance of women, so if women want to have a gym that caters only to women, it makes some sense. It's not saying men are all bad, but it's to make women more comfortable, because obviously some of them feel uncomfortable at the gym. By taking all men out of the equation, you take the scumbags out too. And you probably even eliminate some of the judgemental women too, because everyone is going there not to be judged.

If there was a logical reason for the barber not to allow women, I'd probably defend it, but there really isn't. Ban women's cuts, but if a woman wants a traditional men's cut it's kind of hard argue the point in denying her. It's the same with the SpaLady thing, if you had a real genuine reason to go there, I'd probably defend your right to do so, but if it's for giggles and to prove a point, then get over it.

We've seen from some ignorant posters here and from the personal accounts of the female posters over the last few days that misogyny and sexism against women is a very real thing that is occurring right now, so anyone with empathy might understand why a woman would want a break.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by pylon

I am not saying it is wrong to exclude men from a business, I get why it is done.

However, if you take gender inequality and misogyny out, how can a women's business do the same thing carte blanche, without the same repercussions? Why is there not outrage from the mens side about us being excluded, I never see it.

My significant other and mom are both members at one of the SpaLady's. I just sent them a membership request indicating that I would like to work out with them. I await their response.

[pylon]

For the record, before I am labelled as something I am not.

I would never exclude anyone from anything based on gender. The guy should have just cut the ladies hair. Full stop. There is no reason not to. I am 100% for equality in every setting. If I was a business owner, I would not have any gender based rules outside of mens and womens washrooms. Everyone should be 100% equal in my eyes regardless of gender, race, religion...etc.

I am just being contrarian.

I think what bothers me personally, is there is rules that allow men to be excluded, because of the worst traits of a small group of men. And that small group, has allowed a ton of good men, get labelled as in poor light, because of the actions of a few creeps.

[SeeGeeWhy]

Originally Posted by pylon

For sharts and giggles, the next day I have off, I will attempt to join a Spa Lady. I will record the whole thing, and report back.

Because I believe you are wrong, and they would never allow a man to join.

And for the record, I have no issues with business that exclude men, I also have no issues with it going the other way either, as long as it is not rooted in hate or Misogyny.

I don't think it will work because you don't genuinely want it. Let's say you're a man waiting to undergo gender reassignment surgery and therapy, and want to go to spa lady because you feel like a woman and want to be in a place that caters to women. I'd like to see that go down, because those are the men who would be legitimately put out by the gender discrimination potentially practiced by brands like that.

[Travis Munroe]

Edit: Already posted

[wittynickname]

Originally Posted by pylon

I am not saying it is wrong to exclude men from a business, I get why it is done.

However, if you take gender inequality and misogyny out, how can a women's business do the same thing carte blanche, without the same repercussions? Why is there not outrage from the mens side about us being excluded, I never see it.

How many specifically women's only businesses are there really? Curves/women's gyms are the only thing I can think of off of the top of my head. And in that case, it's a whole lot more about creating a safe space for women. Given that there's controversy on this board about a thread specifically meant for men to ogle barely dressed women--it's understandable why women would want a safe, women's only space in order to work out while not feeling like pieces of meat.

Also there's a reason why there are spaces like Curves that are 'safe spaces' for women, because by and large, the world is not a place where women can always feel safe. Women are still treated as a minority, are still fighting for equality. When you have the upper hand already--does it really make sense for you to be alloted special perks? When your simple existence as a man is a nice big perk?

Putting it in simplistic terms, one of my favorite examples: when you're playing MarioKart, if you're already in first place, you don't get turtle shells or lightning bolts. Because you're already winning.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

My significant other and mom are both members at one of the SpaLady's. I just sent them a membership request indicating that I would like to work out with them. I await their response.

That is how one of my favourite movies starts up.

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by wittynickname

This isn't unusual. I can't recall the exact person/story, but just recently there was a woman who works in the video game industry who called out the video game industry's sexism, exclusion of women (even though they make up approximately half of all gamers), etc, and she started receiving such a large number of threats that she had to contact the police.

I've heard it said that if you read the comments section of any article about feminism, they explain why feminism is necessary, and it's really pretty true. For every grown up and enlightened man who agrees that women should have equality, you have at least one neanderthal idiot who thinks women are at fault for most of the problems in the world.

As photon mentioned, here is an article with a good explanations of Anita Sarkeesian and the sexism she has been enduring.

As a result, she has suffered literal years of online abuse like denial-of-service attacks, rape threats, Web vandalism, and attempts at “doxing” or distributing personal information online, not to mention unceasing abuse in the form of tweets, emails, and internet comments. Some astonishingly awful creatures even made a video game consisting of nothing but punching Sarkeesian’s face into oblivion. What crime has Sarkeesian committed to deserve this treatment? Merely speaking up about the fact that, y’know, women aren’t portrayed all that well in video games.

http://goo.gl/yCqLix

And here is a followup from someone who fully admits he was once one of the worst offenders, and while he now sees that it is wrong, he understands where it comes from.

Sarkeesian was, in a lot of ways, the lighting of the fuse that finally exploded with Zoe Quinn. Together these women represent everything that threatens these boys - women entering their space, being sexual but not sexual with them, forcing them to examine the seedy and anti-woman power fantasies that are playing out in too many games. The clubhouse has been invaded and it's getting redecorated and nobody asked them first.

http://badassdigest.com/2014/08/31/w...ergate-gamers/

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by wittynickname

How many specifically women's only businesses are there really?

I wonder if this salon in Calgary will give me a perm or color?

http://www.hotfrog.ca/Companies/JUST...Ns-HAIR-STUDIO

[FlamesAddiction]

I don't think a business should be able to legally exclude someone based on gender, but at the same time, I don't think it is wrong to promote a business as providing a service specifically for a particular gender and that most reasonable people should be respectful of it.

The barber shop workers should have just rolled their eyes given her a haircut.

My sister was excluded from a "black" hair dresser before in Toronto (not that it was openly advertised as that of course). We walked in and when she asked if she could get a haircut, the hairdresser gave her a dirty look and said; "We don't cut your kind of hair here.". It was really rude. I would have understood if they said that they typically cut African hair and weren't confident that they could do a good job on her, but the disgusting look they gave her and the way she said it was uncalled for.

[Arya Stark]

Originally Posted by wittynickname

How many specifically women's only businesses are there really? Curves/women's gyms are the only thing I can think of off of the top of my head. And in that case, it's a whole lot more about creating a safe space for women. Given that there's controversy on this board about a thread specifically meant for men to ogle barely dressed women--it's understandable why women would want a safe, women's only space in order to work out while not feeling like pieces of meat.

Also there's a reason why there are spaces like Curves that are 'safe spaces' for women, because by and large, the world is not a place where women can always feel safe. Women are still treated as a minority, are still fighting for equality. When you have the upper hand already--does it really make sense for you to be alloted special perks? When your simple existence as a man is a nice big perk?

Putting it in simplistic terms, one of my favorite examples: when you're playing MarioKart, if you're already in first place, you don't get turtle shells or lightning bolts. Because you're already winning.

Safe?? Are men not able to work out by women without feeling labeled a rapist?

So sick of the women treating men like animals who can't control themselves.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Arya Stark

Safe?? Are men not able to work out by women without feeling labeled a rapist?

So sick of the women treating men like animals who can't control themselves.

I think when men stop raping and abusing women then yeah we can have that dicussion.

Untill then nope.

[The Fonz]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

I wonder if this salon in Calgary will give me a perm or color?

http://www.hotfrog.ca/Companies/JUST...Ns-HAIR-STUDIO

Lol

"We serve only womens"

[Regular_John]

It was a pretty short sighted move by the barber shop owner to refuse the hair cut to this woman.

Yes, you are a men's barber shop and she has lady parts, but you've gotta pick your battles and I'm not sure this was the right hill to die on.

Or in the words of the dude: (NSFW language)

Spoiler!

She had money, and wanted a service you provide, she just happened to be outside of your typical demographic.

[photon]

Originally Posted by Burninator

Couldn't they draw the line at the type of hair (long) or type of hair cut (long hair cut)?

That's what my barber does, I don't think he cuts longer hair so when a little girl went in for a haircut he didn't do it.. not because of gender, but because he'd screw it up. If the other person that works there sometimes was there then she would have got her cut.

Originally Posted by pylon

However, if you take gender inequality and misogyny out, how can a women's business do the same thing carte blanche, without the same repercussions?

So your question is if the situation changes why wouldn't the outcome be different?? Well of course it would be different. If you take gender out entirely and society only had one gender and reproduced asexually then it'd be different too.

But we have to make decisions based on the society we actually have, not the one we want or the one we think we have, so we can't take sexism and misogyny out of it because those are real things women have to face every day.

Originally Posted by pylon

Why is there not outrage from the mens side about us being excluded, I never see it.

Then you haven't looked hard enough. It does happen. There have been cases where women's only gyms have been ordered to allow men for various reasons. Other cases of discrimination against men where men have won as well. You just don't hear about it as often because it doesn't happen as often.

Originally Posted by pylon

I think what bothers me personally, is there is rules that allow men to be excluded, because of the worst traits of a small group of men. And that small group, has allowed a ton of good men, get labelled as in poor light, because of the actions of a few creeps.

It's not about you though.

[Chill Cosby]

Originally Posted by Arya Stark

Safe?? Are men not able to work out by women without feeling labeled a rapist?



So sick of the women treating men like animals who can't control themselves.

The concept "Some men are awful so it's easier to surround yourself with women" is not the same as "All men are awful."

Maybe you should read.

[Arya Stark]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

I think when men stop raping and abusing women then yeah we can have that dicussion.

Untill then nope.

Men rape women at the gym? The actions of a few men shouldn't interfere with my rights. I don't appreciate being looked at as a man who can't have a woman work out by him because he might rape them.

If women complain about not being able to get their hair cut as a barber then I want to work out at spa lady.

[photon]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

http://badassdigest.com/2014/08/26/v...e-to-#######s/

Link gets caught by the profanity filter, here's a shortened version http://goo.gl/yCqLix

[photon]

Originally Posted by Arya Stark

Safe?? Are men not able to work out by women without feeling labeled a rapist?

So sick of the women treating men like animals who can't control themselves.

Not everything is about you.