Starting roster 2014 better than 2013?

[timbit]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

D is a huge upgrade. 2 NHL defenceman, including one with legit top 4 on many teams, for 2 guys who are not NHL defencemen.

But make no mistake, we are not a strong team. Glad Hartley is around to make these guys work.

Killer...who is the top 4 D that you mention? Just curious.

[killer_carlson]

Originally Posted by timbit

Killer...who is the top 4 D that you mention? Just curious.

Smid

[djsFlames]

Lost Cammalleri, gained Gaudreau.

Win.

[timbit]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

Smid

Just my opinion but Smid is not a top 4 D on any team but the absolute bottom feeders.

[PugnaciousIntern]

Originally Posted by timbit

Just my opinion but Smid is not a top 4 D on any team but the absolute bottom feeders.

It sounded like a subtle shot at the Oilers to me, while emphasizing that although nothing spectacular, he does hold his own in the NHL.

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

Smid

I assumed he was referring to Wideman.

[dammage79]

Depending on how camp shakes down, I'd say marginally better. Cammy's goals to me anyways, should be more evenly spread across the roster instead of lumping them all in on one player. I having this sneaking suspicion that Backlund is going to be a 50 point guy this year as well. Gaudreau if he makes the Roster will at the very least create more points with his elite playmaking abilities.

The D is bigger and nastier which should allow Brodie, Gio and Wideman a little more freedom to move around and create.

Goaltending is rock solid IMO. Hiller is an astronomical upgrade on Berra and at the very worst with provide a solid 1a/1b tandem with Ramo. Although I suspect that Hiller will be the #1. In any case, however the chips fal in the goaltending department, huge upgrade and will probably earn the Flames 5 more wins.

[Hackey]

I think this years team looks and will be worse. A lot went right last year and we didn't really have the struggles many expected but still finished 27th. I just don't see us having all the positives from last year and some. Teams will be a lot more prepared when facing the Flames this year. Hiller is the biggest question mark for me. If he can play great we might be slightly improved. If not I expect a bottom 3 in the standings.

[stemit14]

Originally Posted by Hackey

I think this years team looks and will be worse. A lot went right last year and we didn't really have the struggles many expected but still finished 27th. I just don't see us having all the positives from last year and some. Teams will be a lot more prepared when facing the Flames this year. Hiller is the biggest question mark for me. If he can play great we might be slightly improved. If not I expect a bottom 3 in the standings.

I would say more things went wrong for the flames last year than went right. The flames lost way more games that they deserved to win compared to the number of games they won but deserved to lose.

Plus the biggest weakness the flames had last year was goaltending during the first half of the season as both goalies were adjusting to the NHL game. And Berra let a lot of leads slip away. The flames tied a record for the most one-goal games in a season... And since they finished 27th overall last year... That means they were on the losing end of lots of games that could have easily gone either way.

And the record with gio in the line up speaks for itself... so losing giordano to injury for so long was a major blow. I know all teams have to deal with injuries but it's more rare to lose your very best player who is having a break-out season to such a long term injury. It does happen for sure but that has to count as something going very wrong for the flames.

The things that went right were young players developing their game... And that's what is supposed to happen in well-run organizations and should continue to happen this season. Backlund, colborne, Byron, Monahan, Brodie... They all took a step in their development and I expect them to keep doing it. There are lots of kids knocking on the door to make the flames so these guys know they have to keep getting better if they want to keep their spot.

[herashak]

Well it basically all depends on Giordano to me. Goalies and offence is a wash tbh. If gio plays like did a couple years back than we are worse.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Frank MetaMusil

I'd rather the team tries to win and whatever pick they end up with is fine. Hartley might be on the chopping block if Burke can't take the losing. The Flames won't pick top 3.

In the guys first full season in Toronto the team was 7 points worse and finished 2nd last in the entire league without their own pick. I think Burke is fine with losing without his own pick at least. A similar drop this year should ensure a legitimate chance at a top 3 pick.

I would say the roster is worse than last years, pretty much status quo on defence, a drop off up front and well below average goaltending leads to a bottom 3 in the league team.

[Freeway]

Smid, Wideman and Engelland are bottom pairing on most teams. Russell's bottom pairing on a lot of teams, too.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Freeway

Smid, Wideman and Engelland are bottom pairing on most teams. Russell's bottom pairing on a lot of teams, too.

Maybe with some of Wideman's play last year, sure, but he's definitely capable of more.

[badger89]

Originally Posted by Frank MetaMusil

I'd rather the team tries to win and whatever pick they end up with is fine. Hartley might be on the chopping block if Burke can't take the losing. The Flames won't pick top 3.

This is the reason Canadian teams don't do well. Rushing to win is a recipe for mediocrity. We're lucky to be rebuilding at the right time. We just need to take advantage and draft top 3 this year!

[heep223]

Originally Posted by Freeway

Smid, Wideman and Engelland are bottom pairing on most teams. Russell's bottom pairing on a lot of teams, too.

Wideman not bottom pairing. People have such short memories my god. He had a horrible, injury-ridden year last year. The recency bias is strong around here.

[Enoch Root]

There is no way that the D is 'about the same'. It is significantly better IMO. Against last year's opening lineup:

Giordano >> Giordano of last year. We'll see if he can play as well as last year, but it's a safe bet that he remains better than the Gio that we thought we entered last season with (comparing the Gio entering this season to the Gio entering last season).

Brodie >>> Brodie. He made huge strides last year and is now a solid defenseman

Russell = Russell
Wideman = Wideman (though I think we'll get more of the pre-injury Wideman than the post injury version this year)

Smid >> Butler there is no comparison here... big improvement

Engelland >? O'Brien we'll see what we've got in Engelland but it has to be better than O'Brien

call-ups >> call-ups with a pen full of developing kids led by Wotherspoon, there are more and better injury relpacements than there were last year.

Top to bottom, the D is substantially better than last year's opening lineup.

Goaltending is also significantly better than where Ramo and Berra were in October.

We shall see if the forwards can score as many goals as last year.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by heep223

Wideman not bottom pairing. People have such short memories my god. He had a horrible, injury-ridden year last year. The recency bias is strong around here.

Do they have short memories, or is it you with the short memory?

What about his last season with Washington and his first season with Calgary? In Widemans first season with Calgary he looked great for the first half only to look pretty meh in his own end for the 2nd half. His last season with Washington was the same. By the time the playoffs rolled around he was playing sheltered minutes on the bottom pairing and getting 2nd pp unit time.

Think Wideman is in that 4/5 range. On a team with not a lot of talent on the back end he slots in on the 2nd pairing. On some good teams he could certainly fall to the bottom pairing.

I have no doubt that Wideman will look great coming out of the gates. It's the 2nd half of the season that will be interesting to see if he can keep it up.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by heep223

Wideman not bottom pairing. People have such short memories my god. He had a horrible, injury-ridden year last year. The recency bias is strong around here.

If the recency bias for Wideman should be discounted, than the recency bias for Giordano should be discounted as well. You can't have it both ways.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

If the recency bias for Wideman should be discounted, than the recency bias for Giordano should be discounted as well. You can't have it both ways.

Good point, I suppose it's not so black and white. Maybe it should be "what have you done for me lately".

I guess I just think that Wideman has the tools to be a 2nd pairing d-man and he had a bunch of injuries last year. Don't think we can write him off as being 3rd pairing quite yet.

[Rick M.]

I think we're marginally better than last year but we'll finish lower in the standings due to greater improvement by other Pacific Division teams.