[Signing] Flames Sign Devin Setoguchi to one year 750k deal.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by AC

No, just these:
http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showpos...5&postcount=51

I could see him finding real success with a smart playmaker who can find him in the side slot. Hudler comes to mind.

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by Split98

PARDON ME? Were we going to talk about this?

You trashy pig. Don't even think about coming over this weekend, we're done.

MarkGio... home wrecker.

[gunnner]

I think most of the board has confused a low risk move with a smart move. The probability of success is low, so for me its a bad move. There are some great articles out there on the Oakland Athletics decision making/drafting/FA signing process. Give it a read on why not to make low risk low reward signings. A signing should serve a purpose, and I still dont understand what he is likely to bring that will a)improve the team in the short term, b)improve the team in the long term.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by gunnner

I think most of the board has confused a low risk move with a smart move. The probability of success is low, so for me its a bad move. There are some great articles out there on the Oakland Athletics decision making/drafting/FA signing process. Give it a read on why not to make low risk low reward signings. A signing should serve a purpose, and I still dont understand what he is likely to bring that will a)improve the team in the short term, b)improve the team in the long term.

All will agree that the risk with Seto is low, most would agree that probability of "success" (which is subjective) is low, but there would be disagreement that the potential reward is also low. That is your opinion.

Furthermore, there needs to be context for this evaluation as opposed to in your vacuum. If we were to go and get a player who's probability of success was high, and who's potential reward was high, that would be fantastic! Do you know what we'd have to give up to trade for such a player (ie. quality prospects and picks)? Or what we'd have to pay them as a UFA? And how much that player would cost in total dollars and term? This forum would be incensed if at this stage of the rebuild, the Flames went after your high probability and high reward player by either paying huge dollars and term or giving up prospects and picks. To me, you are describing the road to mediocrity that we're trying to stay away from.

We need to draft and be patient. For us to take a chance (ie. your low probability of success) on a pretty young local guy who has shown he can be a 20 or 30 goal scorer for small dollars on a one year deal makes sense.

[Gaskal]

Originally Posted by gunnner

A signing should serve a purpose, and I still dont understand what he is likely to bring that will a)improve the team in the short term, b)improve the team in the long term.

a.) Fills a hole on the RW


b.) Ups the competition for the prospects

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Long term, if he plays well at all you flip him for another asset at the trade deadline. If he has a bad year you let him go. One year at minimal dollars, there's isn't a lot to dislike about it.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by fotze

Just grabbed the last years announced starting lineup and looked at how many did not play 82 games. i.e. how many non-starter games were played (whether it be trade or injury or benching).

Player - games missed

Spoiler!

DEFENCE
T.J. Brodie - 1
Chris Butler - 0
Mark Giordano - 18
Shane O’Brien - 37
Kris Russell - 14
Derek Smith - 68
Dennis Wideman - 36
Total 174 games or 2.1 players per game

FORWARDS (14)
Mikael Backlund - 6
Sven Baertschi - 56
Lance Bouma - 4
Joe Colborne - 2
TJ Galiardi - 20
Curtis Glencross - 44
Jiri Hudler - 7
Tim Jackman - 72
David Jones - 34
Brian McGrattan - 6
Sean Monahan - 7
Matt Stajan - 19
Lee Stempniak - 30
Michael Cammalleri* - 19

Total 326 games or 4 players per game

(Cammy was injured so they had Street in there so I ignored Street)

So based on last year, we have 2 additional full time (82 game) spots on D and 4 additional full time spots on forward.

I think Johnny will be playing some significant NHL this year whether he "starts" or not.

Instead of man games lost its better to look at man games played by our prospects last year. Why? Because those numbers should exclude games where our prospects are sitting as a healty scratch, or are simply injured and are on the roster. So including Ben Street and Blair Jones, I got that all of our prospects combined played 164 games last season(2 players per game).
A detailed list inside the spoiler tag
EDIT:
*Paul Byron(47GP), Lance Bouma(78GP), Joe Colborne(80GP), TJ Brodie(81GP), and Sean Monahan(75GP) are not included on the list because in my eyes they made the team full time. Also, everyone of them except Byron was given a space on the team out of Camp. If you want a different statistics use a calculator.

Spoiler!

Player...............................GP(or GPI for goalies)
SVEN BAERTSCHI..............26
TYLER WOTHERSPOON.......14
BLAIR JONES.....................14
DEREK SMITH....................14
BEN STREET......................13
BEN HANOWSKI.................11
CHAD BILLINS....................10
CHRISTOPHER BREEN .........9
JONI ORTIO........................9
MAX REINHART...................8
KENNY AGOSTINO...............8
MARKUS GRANLUND............7
CORBAN KNIGHT.................7
BRYCE VAN BRABANT...........6
MARK CUNDARI...................4
JOHNNY GAUDREAU.............1
ROMAN HORAK....................1
LANE MACDERMID................1
BILL ARNOLD.......................1

EDIT: Baertschi added to the list

[djsFlames]

These vets won't be displaced from the roster entirely, but vet players can be bumped to the 13/14th forward position if a prospect is good enough and still be with the big team. I think people are forgetting that. We said 12 are under contract? well 1 or 2 could be riding the pine if they don't out compete the kids coming in.

But I would bank on injury still playing a factor even on opening night.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

But I would bank on a David Jones injury still playing a factor even on opening night.

fyp

[Enoch Root]

^ plus Baertschi (and Monahan)

[DJones]

It's not low risk/low reward I think it's zero risk/ moderate reward

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

Instead of man games lost its better to look at man games played by our prospects last year. Why? Because those numbers should exclude games where our prospects are sitting as a healty scratch, or are simply injured and are on the roster. So including Ben Street and Blair Jones, I got that all of our prospects combined played 138 games last season(1.68 players per game).
A detailed list inside the spoiler tag

Spoiler!

Player...............................GP(or GPI for goalies)
TYLER WOTHERSPOON.......14
BLAIR JONES.....................14
DEREK SMITH....................14
BEN STREET......................13
BEN HANOWSKI.................11
CHAD BILLINS....................10
CHRISTOPHER BREEN .........9
JONI ORTIO........................9
MAX REINHART...................8
KENNY AGOSTINO...............8
MARKUS GRANLUND............7
CORBAN KNIGHT.................7
BRYCE VAN BRABANT...........6
MARK CUNDARI...................4
JOHNNY GAUDREAU.............1
ROMAN HORAK....................1
LANE MACDERMID................1
BILL ARNOLD.......................1

Is there a reason Byron and his 47 games are not included?

[Beatle17]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

Instead of man games lost its better to look at man games played by our prospects last year. Why? Because those numbers should exclude games where our prospects are sitting as a healty scratch, or are simply injured and are on the roster. So including Ben Street and Blair Jones, I got that all of our prospects combined played 138 games last season(1.68 players per game).
A detailed list inside the spoiler tag

Spoiler!

Player...............................GP(or GPI for goalies)
TYLER WOTHERSPOON.......14
BLAIR JONES.....................14
DEREK SMITH....................14
BEN STREET......................13
BEN HANOWSKI.................11
CHAD BILLINS....................10
CHRISTOPHER BREEN .........9
JONI ORTIO........................9
MAX REINHART...................8
KENNY AGOSTINO...............8
MARKUS GRANLUND............7
CORBAN KNIGHT.................7
BRYCE VAN BRABANT...........6
MARK CUNDARI...................4
JOHNNY GAUDREAU.............1
ROMAN HORAK....................1
LANE MACDERMID................1
BILL ARNOLD.......................1

Plus 101 for Baertschi and Monahan. Also 47 for Byron. So add 148 to the total for 286 games. Total of 3.49 spots per game for the season.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by Beatle17

Plus 101 for Baertschi and Monahan. Also 47 for Byron. So add 148 to the total for 286 games. Total of 3.49 spots per game for the season.

I knew I should've put an asterics because here every little thing is being questioned. Byron and Monahan made the team, so I didn't count those as prospects... or should I include Brodie, Colborne, and Bouma as well(all of them are just 24)?

Baertschi I missed, so I will update it 138+26=164... still 2 players per game not 5.

[Enoch Root]

Well, Monahan was a 19 year old, trying out for the team for the first time. (as opposed to Brodie and Bouma, who were on the team the prior year)

The discussion is about opportunities for prospects, so I would think including Monahan and Baertschi makes sense.

Making the team out of camp certainly qualifies as an opportunity in my books

[Beatle17]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

I knew I should've put an asterics because here every little thing is being questioned. Byron and Monahan made the team, so I didn't count those as prospects... or should I include Brodie, Colborne, and Bouma as well(all of them are just 24)?

Baertschi I missed, so I will update it 138+26=164... still 2 players per game not 5.

Sorry I wasn't questioning you. You provided excellent stats to begin with is why I quoted your post. I just wanted to add some of the other prospects into the discussion. Anyway, great job looking up the information.

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

I knew I should've put an asterics because here every little thing is being questioned. Byron and Monahan made the team, so I didn't count those as prospects... or should I include Brodie, Colborne, and Bouma as well(all of them are just 24)?

Baertschi I missed, so I will update it 138+26=164... still 2 players per game not 5.

Byron actually didn't make the team out of camp. He played the first 23 games in the minors before being called up and sticking with the team. So his 47 probably should be counted.

[CSharp]

Originally Posted by J epworth kendal

Frick, 1987 birthday is old now, that's it, Crosby is over the hill!

Every year goes by, Monahan, Bennett, and whoever young guys the Flames pick up gets older. Guess every year after 1987, any player born before a specified year is about to kick the bucket based on this forum!

[ForeverFlameFan]

The new retirement age is 30 guys.

[Hugh Jahrmes]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

The new retirement age is 30 guys.

Guess I do have something to look forward to next year