[Signing] Flames Sign Devin Setoguchi to one year 750k deal.

[Split98]

Originally Posted by MarkGio

And if they play better and don't make the team?

THEN you can start criticizing the move. Right now, when NONE of the prospects have shown that they belong in the NHL? It's silly.

Originally Posted by ricardodw

To me this signing makes it official. The Flames management is going for the the tank job 2015.

ONE guy who is TWENTY SEVEN who has shown potential playing on a wing that looks like this:
David Jones
Brian McGrattan
is not a tank job. Setoguchi fills a void on this team, leaving it completely blank and crossing our fingers that one of our prospects full that void in training camp would be much more of a tank job.

Bringing back Anders Eriksson would be a tank job.

Originally Posted by ricardodw

The locker room will always be happy with veterans on the pine.

They moved O'Brien out of the locker room ... without any real replacement when he didn't fit

If Knight or Rienhart or Grandlund force their way on the team does Stajan get the pine as well.

He is a poor excuse for a 3rd line checking centre.

Riding the pine wasn't the reason O'Brien was considered a poor asset in the locker room. He was just... a poor asset in the locker room.

If a veteran legitimately loses his spot to a prospect, and then wants to whine about it instead of stepping up the competition and fighting to get that spot back (read: entertaining for us to watch); then he can sail away on waivers, I don't want him on the Flames anyway.

Originally Posted by MarkGio

Ok fine.

Then what? More Tim Erixons - players who won't sign and demand to traded? Have an organization with a reputation that no rookie stands a chance?

Hockey is about players. I'm not sure how well versed you are in human resources, but an organization has to adjust to the labour market. Similiar to the relationship between specialists and hospitals, hockey clubs are not competitive without talent. Hockey is leaning towards ELC contracts and bridge contracts, which allows a club to be deep under the cap. With a changing labour climate in hockey, good organizations have to obtain and retain good young talent.

Again, we are talking about Setoguchi here right? A reclamation project? If he plays the way he can, sure... it'll be hard for a kid to oust him. Just so we're clear, that's GREAT for us Flames fans. You know... players playing well and all.

But let's say Seto plays the way he has of late. If any of Gaudreau or Poirier or Baertschi or Klimchuk play well enough they will take a spot on the team. An under-performing Setoguchi is not going to stop that. If Seto is taking top minutes and all four of those above aren't given a shot, THEN we can start getting worried.

[toquester]

The whole thing is competition and being able to slide people in and out of the lineup at will. We have gotten in trouble in the past when we made players permanent fixtures. It didn't work with highly paid veterans, why in hell would it work with youngsters? You need to look at what giving rookies guaranteed spots to develop did to Edmonton.

Keep the competition open. And talent is not the only required prerequisite. I would rather have a team player who would do anything to assure the team a win than a flashy, selfish player any day.

[Chill Cosby]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

That's fair enough.

Plus, if he gets outplayed you won't have to hear him called Gooch very often.

Until that day, Gooch lives.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by MarkGio

Ok fine.

Then what? More Tim Erixons - players who won't sign and demand to traded? Have an organization with a reputation that no rookie stands a chance?

Hockey is about players. I'm not sure how well versed you are in human resources, but an organization has to adjust to the labour market. Similiar to the relationship between specialists and hospitals, hockey clubs are not competitive without talent. Hockey is leaning towards ELC contracts and bridge contracts, which allows a club to be deep under the cap. With a changing labour climate in hockey, good organizations have to obtain and retain good young talent.

How on earth is signing a free agent - dirt cheap - to an area of the organization that is woefully under-staffed, bad human capital management?

If your argument is that the young talent needs opportunities...

1) the Flames are at 46 contracts (under-staffed)
2) Setoguchi is signed for ONE year (a term contract)
3) there are still plenty of job opportunities
4) it may well be that playing in the A (having to wait a while and earn their opportunity) is the best thing for them (best training and development).

[Bandwagon In Flames]

I've always liked Setoguchi's style of play, but it was obvious that Thornton inflated his stats in San Jose. He pretty much took over for Cheechoo who followed a similar path after leaving the Sharks.

That said, if Setoguchi has this ability to benefit that much from great teammates, hes a great replacement for the Flames not landing Hayes.

Seto could prove to be a more valuable line-mate to Gaudreau than Jones or Colborne would be as he has proven NHL finishing ability. He's also young enough that he can still be a part of the team several years from now.

We'll soon see what type of Setoguchi sign's into training camp this season. As Treliving said it's a low risk move which means if it doesn't work out it's easy to bench him or put him on waivers.

Treliving's rep won't live or die based on this move so Hartley will do what he feels benefits the team most.

[-TC-]

I am very ok with this deal....win/win situation. nice.

[getbak]

Not to belabour the point, but this is who I would consider to be the Flames' "Core 12" forwards from last season:

1. Backlund
2. Bouma
3. Cammalleri
4. Colborne
5. Galiardi
6. Glencross
7. Hudler
8. Jones
9. McGrattan
10. Monahan
11. Stajan
12. Stempniak

In other words, all other things being equal, these are the 12 forwards who would dress for a game.

Last year, these 12 players were all healthy and available for the same game only 5 times over the course of the season. Oddly, of those 5 games, all 12 players didn't dress for any of them. One game, McGrattan was scratched for Jackman; and the other four games saw Galiardi scratched in favour of Byron.

For 54 games last season, at least 2 of those 12 players were unavailable either due to injury, illness, personal reasons, or being traded away.

[MarkGio]

Originally Posted by Split98

THEN you can start criticizing the move. Right now, when NONE of the prospects have shown that they belong in the NHL? It's silly.



ONE guy who is TWENTY SEVEN who has shown potential playing on a wing that looks like this:
David Jones
Brian McGrattan
is not a tank job. Setoguchi fills a void on this team, leaving it completely blank and crossing our fingers that one of our prospects full that void in training camp would be much more of a tank job.

Bringing back Anders Eriksson would be a tank job.



Riding the pine wasn't the reason O'Brien was considered a poor asset in the locker room. He was just... a poor asset in the locker room.

If a veteran legitimately loses his spot to a prospect, and then wants to whine about it instead of stepping up the competition and fighting to get that spot back (read: entertaining for us to watch); then he can sail away on waivers, I don't want him on the Flames anyway.



Again, we are talking about Setoguchi here right? A reclamation project? If he plays the way he can, sure... it'll be hard for a kid to oust him. Just so we're clear, that's GREAT for us Flames fans. You know... players playing well and all.

But let's say Seto plays the way he has of late. If any of Gaudreau or Poirier or Baertschi or Klimchuk play well enough they will take a spot on the team. An under-performing Setoguchi is not going to stop that. If Seto is taking top minutes and all four of those above aren't given a shot, THEN we can start getting worried.

Most Flames fans who actually watch the team know Huds and Colborne were on the right wing last year, so you're not credible if you list McGrats and Jones only.

Secondly, Setoguchi playing well doesn't benefit the Flames that much since he's capped out as a 3rd liner. A guy like Poirer, however, has the potential to be a first liner who plays similar to Brad Marchand. The Flames have a bunch of 2nd/3rd liners in Stajan, Jones, Huds, Glenny, etc. and need to create first liners. Don't kid yourself, Setoguchi isn't going to make the Flames better long term, so why not invest in someone who will?

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

This post was a joke, I'm well aware.

It was not.

[mile]

Adding Raymond, Setoguchi, and a healthy Glencross - all proven goal scorers, might be what Monahan needs to show off more of that playmaking ability he was highly touted for in junior.

When Monahan made the team last year, he probably became the best finisher on the team by default in a lineup that was weak on goal scorers (outside of Cammalleri). If he was played with more accomplished goal scorers he might have had a 20 goal/20 assist rookie season.

[AcGold]

That a league minimum player has the most goals of any player on our team is troublesome. I hope our prospects turn into superstars

[Huntingwhale]

This thread is hilarious. People complaining about how they'll never get to see the kids they so desperately want to watch? It's almost as if the Flames won't have a single injury upfront all season long

[theTrumanShow]

Originally Posted by Huntingwhale

This thread is hilarious. People complaining about how they'll never get to see the kids they so desperately want to watch? It's almost as if the Flames won't have a single injury upfront all season long

Exactly, isn't the point to let them develop? Or do we want to rush all of our prospects and then let them burn up like all the previous ones. ie: Baertschi, Boyd, Tkachuk....

Let's do this right for once and let them develop in the minors. Thats what that league is for!

[AC]

Originally Posted by Huntingwhale

This thread is hilarious. People complaining about how they'll never get to see the kids they so desperately want to watch? It's almost as if the Flames won't have a single injury upfront all season long

No kidding.

Last year, we saw the Flames use Monahan, Bouma, Colborne, and Brodie as regular NHLers. Brodie eventually becoming part of the top pair. 314 games combined from those 4.

In addition, Paul Byron played 47 games and Baertschi played 26.
The following players got their cup of coffee in the NHL: Billins, Agostino, Reinhart, Breen, Hanowski, Ortio, Gaudreau, Knight, Arnold, Cundari, and Van Brabant.

Finally both Wotherspoon and Granlund received callups and looked legitimately capable, and likely would have gotten into many more NHL games had it not been for their injuries.

That's 19 rookies/young players that got some NHL action last season.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

I've always liked Setoguchi's style of play, but it was obvious that Thornton inflated his stats in San Jose. He pretty much took over for Cheechoo who followed a similar path after leaving the Sharks.

That said, if Setoguchi has this ability to benefit that much from great teammates, hes a great replacement for the Flames not landing Hayes.

Seto could prove to be a more valuable line-mate to Gaudreau than Jones or Colborne would be as he has proven NHL finishing ability. He's also young enough that he can still be a part of the team several years from now.

We'll soon see what type of Setoguchi sign's into training camp this season. As Treliving said it's a low risk move which means if it doesn't work out it's easy to bench him or put him on waivers.

Treliving's rep won't live or die based on this move so Hartley will do what he feels benefits the team most.

Cheechoo was a waaaaay better player than Setoguchi ever was or ever will be before injuries shot his career to hell. I hate that comparison. The only thing the two have in common is they both played in San Jose. Setoguchi was a 30 goal guy with Thornton, 20 without. He's as one dimensional as they come. Cheechoo was more than a goal scorer, he was a very good player in his own right. Very hard worker, physical and a leader. He could've had a very good career post Thornton but both his knees were shot.

[Antithesis]

Originally Posted by Huntingwhale

This thread is hilarious. People complaining about how they'll never get to see the kids they so desperately want to watch? It's almost as if the Flames won't have a single injury upfront all season long

Not to mention that you want to have some roster spots available to young players (which the Flames will) but you don't want them to have so many spots that they must put a youngster in - as it sounds like the Oilers might be doing with Draisaitl this season. More competition for spots is a good thing!

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

Cheechoo was a waaaaay better player than Setoguchi ever was or ever will be before injuries shot his career to hell. I hate that comparison. The only thing the two have in common is they both played in San Jose. Setoguchi was a 30 goal guy with Thornton, 20 without. He's as one dimensional as they come. Cheechoo was more than a goal scorer, he was a very good player in his own right. Very hard worker, physical and a leader. He could've had a very good career post Thornton but both his knees were shot.

Fair enough, I do agree that Cheechoo at his prime was a more complete player then Setoguchi will likely ever be. But it's hard to argue that he would ever score 50+ goals in a season without Thornton. I didn't even see Cheechoo as a 40+ goal scorer, probably on the same level as Glencross at his prime.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Has this ever happened before? I'm honestly curious, and this also goes back to an earlier comment by Vulcan conveying concerns that a prospect might "outgrow" the AHL. Are there any players in NHL history whose careers have clearly suffered and stagnated as a result of spending too much time playing in the A?

only because i'm interested in a challenge (as I actually like the Seto signing) but how about Andrei Taratuhkin?

[AcGold]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

only because i'm interested in a challenge (as I actually like the Seto signing) but how about Andrei Taratuhkin?

He played one season in the AHL with less than a ppg.

[Critter4223]

Originally Posted by Jacks

My guess would be:
Jiri Hudler ($4.000m) / Mikael Backlund ($1.500m) / Devin Setoguchi ($0.750m)
Curtis Glencross ($2.550m) / Matt Stajan ($3.125m) / David Jones ($4.000m)
Mason Raymond ($3.150m) / Sean Monahan ($0.925m) / Joe Colborne ($1.275m)
Brandon Bollig ($1.250m) / Paul Byron ($0.600m) / Brian McGrattan ($0.750m)

Not horrible but not exactly an all star team. If one of the kids can't outplay anyone in that top 12 then they need more time developing. If they do play their way onto the team then guys like Setoguchi can be waived/demoted or sit in the pressbox. Besides someone is bound to get injured, the over/under on Jones is probably about 10 games in.

Not horrible? That's a pretty disgusting looking lineup. Besides Monahan our PP players would be PK guys on most teams.