ISIS militants attack and take over Iraqi northern city of Mosul

[AcGold]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

The discussion of an objective evil really warps our self-satisfying moral codes and perpetuates an us vs. them framework. Am I to say that we can't vigorously punish and learn from the identification of various perturbations of evil? No. But I think the capacity for evil is in all of us and that in favourable socio-institutional settings, we are capabale of awesome moral tragedies. Which is why we owe it to ourselves to really *understand* evil. Well beyond the pithy and simplistic attempts in this thread.

One experiment does not prove that humans are evil. There are other studies that suggest that humans are ultimately good, when drafted soldiers often shoot to miss because they don't want to kill other humans.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killology#cite_note-Slam-4

Marshall, S. L. A. (Samuel Lyman Atwood) (2000). Men against fire: the problem of battle command. Norman, Okla.: University of Oklahoma Press. ISBN 978-0-8061-3280-8.


I can safely say putting me in the role of a guard there's no circumstance where I could be abusive to a prisoner. There's nothing they could have done, including pedophilia or rape, that would make me abuse someone. So there's atleast one exception to your everyone has evil in them theory and documented evidence of human unwillingness to kill.

[Vulcan]

I'd guess that 99% of what we call evil is learned.

[StrykerSteve]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-28862268

ISIS has apparently beheaded a missing American journalist as a response to American bombings against IS positions in Iraq.

This is some scary stuff. I cannot comprehend how one man can do this to another.

[Thor]

Watched a nearly unedited video, slight blur when he uses that small knife to slit his throat and proceed to cutting off his head, sick beyond words.

[Ozy_Flame]

Executioner was a Brit, i believe.

[Language]

Originally Posted by Thor

Watched a nearly unedited video, slight blur when he uses that small knife to slit his throat and proceed to cutting off his head, sick beyond words.

I've seen some of the ISIS execution videos where they've lined people up and shot them, but I don't think I have the stomach to watch someone get decapitated like that. Absolutely despicable animals those people are.

[The Ditch]

two words, glass parking lot

[Burninator]

Originally Posted by The Ditch

two words, glass parking lot

Are we suppose to choose the two words? Glass parking. Glass lot.

[wwkayaker]

Originally Posted by Thor

Watched a nearly unedited video, slight blur when he uses that small knife to slit his throat and proceed to cutting off his head, sick beyond words.

Years ago, I clicked a link about a beheading and was absolutely shocked that the link was real. I only clicked the link to test my theory that the link was bogus. Boy was I wrong. The video has bothered me since. Is was so barbaric.

[Senator Clay Davis]

For ####'s sake France...


http://rt.com/news/181076-isis-islam-militans-france/

[Igottago]

These idiots just don't get it. Like the world is going to respond to a beheading like "ok, you guys win, we are all converting to Islam now". Barbarian morons, they deserve to be wiped out quickly. Pure scum.

[CaptainCrunch]

People are just learning now that ISIS isn't some freedom fighter group, they are a collection of the worst people out there, psychopaths, Islamo-facists, and worse.

Slowly sawing off the heads of woman and children for your god shows that there is no humanity left in you, that you sold that for a cause where its irrelevant if you believe in it or not.

I think that ISIS publishing the brutal executions of woman and children didn't hit people very hard because it wasn't relatable, it was happening somewhere else and it was middle eastern violence.

But the failure point that people aren't seeing until now is that we're not talking about angry Muslims growing up in poor oppressed countries that are so called striking back.

We're seeing people that are from Western Countries from wealthy families or middle class families that had every benefit of Western Society and were seduced by very saavy recruiters who target outcasts, and losers and psycho's and people that hate more then a 1950's clan meeting in Alabama. they target the guillable, the conspiracy minded and the just plain stupid.

And they promise them a vent to their self perceived wrongs, and they offer them the ability to kill and rape without consequence and they offer them the chance to belong to a group that will accept their evil tendencies.

And they found the best leaders from the extremist groups, the most charismatic leaders, and they grabbed all of the monsters that the American's had in Gitmo and other prisons and bought them together in a caldron of pure hatred and absolute evil. And that's what ISIS is. This isn't about people fighting for Islamic rights, or a Islamic paradise on earth, because frankly if these lunatic's succeed they're going to turn their hatred on their own people as they implement an extreme version of their laws and their governance.

And frankly as this group has more and more success and more propaganda and shows that they can kill and rape and destroy without consequence Their recruiting becomes easier in the Western world, and not all of these recruits are going to be cannon fodder in Iraq. I'm willing to bet that out of the number of people that are recruited that a fairly large percentage are not going over seas, they're here and they're recruiting in their communities. And this movement will grow in the Western World.

Frankly I would think that the execution of a American journalist and the open threats that ISIS is making towards the west is a game changer.

I think that the one benefit of ISIS is that you have a lot of extremists in one area. Personally from a tactics standpoint. Air Strikes against a group like this achieves very little, nor do drone strikes or missile strikes off of ships. You literally have to put special forces on the ground and start killing these people. you have to go after their leadership, and go after their replacements, and you have to be as ruthless and brutal as them. No secret trials, no jail terms no chance of release. you capture them, you put them up against the wall or put or a rope around their necks and send them off to explain their misdeeds to allah.

You contain them in Iraq and you work to wipe them out publicly, loudly and painfully.

At the same time you go after Quatar and Saudi Arabia and their support structure economically. you go after their pipelines of money and support.

For want of better terms you wipe out barbarians, burn their villages and salt the earth to make sure that they don't come back, you don't wait for them to spread.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Igottago

These idiots just don't get it. Like the world is going to respond to a beheading like "ok, you guys win, we are all converting to Islam now". Barbarian morons, they deserve to be wiped out quickly. Pure scum.

As they get wins and success and the western world accepts it, you're going to get more converts.

Crazy people love to be on the winning side.

[Igottago]

I think the only hope of eradicating groups like this effectively and long term, is if the global Islaamic community as as whole, or those who identify as muslim (sunni muslim I think?), start to openly and aggressively challenge the fringe lunatics in their own ranks. The extremist ideology needs to be shunned and shamed at every turn. Until that happens its just going to be a matter of the outsiders putting out fires here and there. I think most level headed people know that this isn't a representation of all followers of Islam. But until the people that lead and prescribe to that religion start actively policing their own, their religion has been hijacked by lunatics and will be able to recruit other followers.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Igottago

I think the only hope of eradicating groups like this effectively and long term, is if the global Islaamic community as as whole, or those who identify as muslim (sunni muslim I think?), start to openly and aggressively challenge the fringe lunatics in their own ranks. The extremist ideology needs to be shunned and shamed at every turn. Until that happens its just going to be a matter of the outsiders putting out fires here and there. I think most level headed people know that this isn't a representation of all followers of Islam. But until the people that lead and prescribe to that relgion start actively start policing their own, their religion has been hijacked by lunatics and will be able to recruit other followers.

I agree, I think that is a huge issue. If I was a Muslim, I would be up in arms about these groups.

[blankall]

It's

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

For ####'s sake France...


http://rt.com/news/181076-isis-islam-militans-france/

I would take anything from the rt with a serious grain of salt. It's owned by the Russian government.

[Senator Clay Davis]

^ Without a doubt, but also worth noting France has the highest Muslim population (majority Sunni) as a percentage of total population in Western Europe, which would correlate with the poll.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Igottago

I think the only hope of eradicating groups like this effectively and long term, is if the global Islaamic community as as whole, or those who identify as muslim (sunni muslim I think?), start to openly and aggressively challenge the fringe lunatics in their own ranks. The extremist ideology needs to be shunned and shamed at every turn. Until that happens its just going to be a matter of the outsiders putting out fires here and there. I think most level headed people know that this isn't a representation of all followers of Islam. But until the people that lead and prescribe to that religion start actively policing their own, their religion has been hijacked by lunatics and will be able to recruit other followers.

Not to say that its never going to happen, but its never going to happen.

First of all there is too much fear and intimidation in the Islamic Global Community.

Second of all, there's not a consensus in those communities, I figure that they're pretty split.

Until each little sub group home grows their own Martin Luther, its not going to happen.

[Harry Lime]

Senator Davis, the reason for that particular attitude in France is because they have some issues concerning immigration in the south that are causing some internal problems. They have a robust immigration policy (not as robust as Canada, but considered progressive) but the newcomers to France hasn't been assimilating and there is a self segregation of the Muslim minority in the south. There has been some discord for years, but it's reaching a political stage which is predictably fiery. The result of polls such as this one is a symptom of a greater social issue in France, and they will have to figure out a way to teach traditional French values to a group of people who increasing have no interest in being taught.

This information is second hand, talking to French people, so take that for what you will. I don't suppose there is a French person here that could talk to the subject? I also would be interested in a poll such as this out of Egypt or Turkey, where the Muslim population is more pronounced but the issues are 1000% more personal and complicated.

I should add that I don't mean any of this as an attack on the Muslim faith. Only that the only supporters of ISIS seem to be of that decent, and education and assimilation seem to be an issue. Most Muslims in the western world don't support ISIS.

There are so many ways to come across badly writing on a subject such as this. Even posting articles is troublesome. Here are two, hopefully reputable sources:
http://articles.philly.com/2004-01-0...lim-head-scarf
http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/35...ion-of-france#

[blankall]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Not to say that its never going to happen, but its never going to happen.

First of all there is too much fear and intimidation in the Islamic Global Community.

Second of all, there's not a consensus in those communities, I figure that they're pretty split.

Until each little sub group home grows their own Martin Luther, its not going to happen.

To add to this.

The biggest victims of these extremists are moderate Muslims. To hold them responsible for the acts of the extremists is not going to work. The solution is for countries like Saudi Arabia and Qatar to stop giving them billions of dollars.