Neighbor with paranoid schizophrenia

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

For what it's worth, I think Ducay and Flameswin are overreacting as I haven't interpreted anything you've said in this thread to be of the "lock him up and take him away" variety.

Yes, I definitely overacted, and I knew it would happen, too, because I'm so close to this type of thing, and I won't divulge anything from Ducay's PM's but his reaction is justified as well, imo.

I was mostly going off these specific comments.

Originally Posted by MacDaddy77

I am wondering if there is any avenue we can use to have this neighbor removed from the care he is under and placed in the proper care with full time supervision

(He obviously needs 24/7 care and supervision)

Thanks

Basically saying he needs 24/7 supervision (and "knows that he needs it) is what almost every person with this mental illness faces from uneducated public, and as much as I understand his frustration and concern, these are the thoughts and demands from an uneducated public that result in depression, hopelessness and suicide for a lot of these people.

It's so frustrating, and I'd hope that you could understand our reaction is more than just an "overreaction", it's a "reaction" to seeing it first hand.

[Kjesse]

Originally Posted by flameswin

It sounds like they responded appropriately to a high risk situation and would then pass the info they get from the incident to AHS.

Sure, it does "sound like" they acted properly. You are assuming things were handled properly, and just trusting when the stakes are potentially very high. I'd be asking questions. "Sounds like" isn't comforting and doesn't properly acknowledge the risk. Are young children around? I wouldn't leave this to assumptions about being handled properly, I'd demand answers. Doing so might even lead to better care for the ill person.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Delgar

Sure, it does "sound like" they acted properly. You are assuming things were handled properly, and just trusting when the stakes are potentially very high. I'd be asking questions. "Sounds like" isn't comforting and doesn't properly acknowledge the risk. Are young children around? I wouldn't leave this to assumptions about being handled properly, I'd demand answers. Doing so might even lead to better care for the ill person.

Yep, and he's entitled to phone the police non-emergeny line and they provide any info they can, and take on any info macdaddy77 can provide and add it to the case, and work with AHS.

Who else do you think is allowed to be involved and more importantly, provide info to neighbours on private medical/police matters?

[Flames_Gimp]

wasn't it an incident between 2 people at the house?

[Kjesse]

Originally Posted by flameswin

Who else do you think is allowed to be involved and more importantly, provide info to neighbours on private medical/police matters?

That's a hard issue. The ill person certainly deserves privacy and his medical file doesn't become public because of this. My comments about making noise and creating an accountability trail are to make sure the officials are doing their jobs even if it can't be verified. The fact is, mac daddy probably won't be able to find much out unless there was an incident where the records become part of a court case. Still, he should press.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Delgar

That's a hard issue. The ill person certainly deserves privacy and his medical file doesn't become public because of this. My comments about making noise and creating an accountability trail are to make sure the officials are doing their jobs even if it can't be verified. The fact is, mac daddy probably won't be able to find much out unless there was an incident where the records become part of a court case. Still, he should press.

Press who? I realize that this is a more extreme example than most, but this is exactly what the general public does to these people all the time.

"We're concerned; we need answers! Let's get all the neighbours together and demand answers from......someone! Everyone!

Next thing you know, this person is demonized and marginalized by the neighbourhood and everyone knows their personal medical and police issues.

So frustrating. Just phone the god damn police, listen to what they're willing to divulge and provide any relevant info. That's how its supposed to work.

You don't trust the calgary police and health officials? Maybe move to another country, but ours are among the best in the world, so I doubt you're going to do much better.

[The Ditch]

Wow, the social justice warriors are out in full force in this thread. The guys is chasing people around with knives and is off his meds, he's a danger to the public, I wouldn't want my children around this person either and OP has every right to be concerned. Since when did mental illness equal no personal responsibility for your actions. Schizophrenia is notorious for people stopping their medication because they feel well and if they can't stay on their medication then appropriate actions should be taken.

[para transit fellow]

WOW

67 posts and not one suggestion of having a chat with the caregiver about what the fellow needs and how to help keep an eye on the fellow.

unless I missed it?

get the emergency contact list, request advice about the protocol of what to do if fellow is acting out. Then you know what to look for and who to call.

That is what we did in my neighborhood when an apartment complex aimed at folks with mental illness was built. Yes, there were a couple of incidents where couches came off the upper balconies but it's been quiet the past decade.

[ernie]

Originally Posted by The Ditch

Wow, the social justice warriors are out in full force in this thread. The guys is chasing people around with knives and is off his meds, he's a danger to the public, I wouldn't want my children around this person either and OP has every right to be concerned. Since when did mental illness equal no personal responsibility for your actions. Schizophrenia is notorious for people stopping their medication because they feel well and if they can't stay on their medication then appropriate actions should be taken.

Just perusing the thread but:

(1) NO one in this thread knows what the situation actually was. Was it instigated by the neighbour or was something instigated by the other person which resulted in the response by the neighbour. Just because a person has a disease does not mean that the cause of the action at hand was due to that disease. There may have been a rational explanation for what happened. If only there was someone one might be able to talk to to get that understanding...

2) NO one knows if he is off his meds.

3) Thus far none of the "evidence" says he is a danger to the public. This incident appears to be a private matter of some sort which is why he is still in the residence and not charged with a crime (which we also don't actually know). Ill or not you still get charged with crimes if you commit one.

I'll be honest the way I read this thread the OP believes his family could be in danger. Fair feeling perhaps. What isn't fair is to then expect someone else to move and disrupt their family when that family is clearly involved with various authorities that know what is going on. If it is truly that big of a concern then you have the option of moving your own family (and hoping your next neighbour also doesn't have any skeletons). What isn't fair is thinking you know the situation when you haven't actually talked to anyone (at least from this thread it would seem that way).

That isn't to say people don't slip through the cracks because they do. However, the fact is there are countless other individuals with expertise in the area that kno far more than the OP does. If the OP wants to know more, like the post above, I suggest talking to the family and trying to gain that understanding.

[Chill Cosby]

Originally Posted by The Ditch

Wow, the social justice warriors are out in full force in this thread. The guys is chasing people around with knives and is off his meds, he's a danger to the public, I wouldn't want my children around this person either and OP has every right to be concerned. Since when did mental illness equal no personal responsibility for your actions. Schizophrenia is notorious for people stopping their medication because they feel well and if they can't stay on their medication then appropriate actions should be taken.

EDIT: Pretty much what is said in the post above, but I'll leave this here anyway.

I think the problem here is that some people don't know what "appropriate actions" are.

As flameswin has said, if you're concerned you call the non-emergency line and voice those concerns along with asking for any providable information that may make you feel at ease. That's it.

An incident where he was chasing around another person living in the house isn't indicative of him not receiving proper care, nor is it indicative or him needing care 24/7. These things can occasionally happen, and when there are incidents like this AHS will certainly know about it in much greater detail, and will be handling an alterations to the care and medication of the person in question long before OP makes their call.

The fact that you present this person as someone who is "off their meds" and is chasing around "people" with "knive" based on one incident where his medication history is unknown, is exactly the kind of thing that is eliciting a negative reaction from the people who are close to others with this condition.

You do not know this person. Do not act like you know anything about them or their situation. It's insulting to a number of people.

As said, the proper course is to phone the non-emergency line and voice your concerns/ask for information. Seeking to have this person removed from their current care is not your place, as you can't possibly know any relevant details about their condition or medical planning.

[The Ditch]

I'm taking the OP at face value when he said the person was arrested for chasing someone around with a knife, as far as we know the OP is telling the truth. Chasing someone around with a knife is not normal behaviour for an adult, period. In fact I would say that it is a lot more concerning than someone under the age of 18 doing it. I don't care that it happened inside someone's house as the person has the ability to open a door and go outside, how are people defending this, he could have killed the person he was chasing then what would people be saying.

[Burninator]

Originally Posted by fotze

The police aren't going to tell the OP anything. I woke up to find a crashed car on my front lawn next to my house. They wouldn't tell me what happened.

I live in a condo and the fire alarm went off at 3 in the morning and the fire department wouldn't tell us anything.

[Burninator]

Is The Ditch reading posts with more information that everyone else can't see?

[ernie]

Originally Posted by The Ditch

I'm taking the OP at face value when he said the person was arrested for chasing someone around with a knife, as far as we know the OP is telling the truth. Chasing someone around with a knife is not normal behaviour for an adult, period. In fact I would say that it is a lot more concerning than someone under the age of 18 doing it. I don't care that it happened inside someone's house as the person has the ability to open a door and go outside, how are people defending this, he could have killed the person he was chasing then what would people be saying.

Because no one knows what the real, honest to goodness FACTS are?

Also arrested does not mean charged. Given his clear history of KNOWN medical issues and various authorities likely involved if he was charged and returned to the home those people that made that decision DO know more than what the OP knows (and some will be experts in the field). Thus far there is no proof that the system hasn't been operating exactly the way it should be.

[Chill Cosby]

Originally Posted by The Ditch

I'm taking the OP at face value when he said the person was arrested for chasing someone around with a knife, as far as we know the OP is telling the truth. Chasing someone around with a knife is not normal behaviour for an adult, period. In fact I would say that it is a lot more concerning than someone under the age of 18 doing it. I don't care that it happened inside someone's house as the person has the ability to open a door and go outside, how are people defending this, he could have killed the person he was chasing then what would people be saying.

I'm not sure you're on the same page as everyone else in this conversation.

Nobody is questioning the validity of the OP's version of events, nor is anyone defending the behaviour as unconcerning or normal. So I'm not sure what you're trying to bring to the discussion.

[MacDaddy77]

Originally Posted by para transit fellow

WOW

67 posts and not one suggestion of having a chat with the caregiver about what the fellow needs and how to help keep an eye on the fellow.

unless I missed it?

get the emergency contact list, request advice about the protocol of what to do if fellow is acting out. Then you know what to look for and who to call.

That is what we did in my neighborhood when an apartment complex aimed at folks with mental illness was built. Yes, there were a couple of incidents where couches came off the upper balconies but it's been quiet the past decade.

I have tried having talks with the caregiver about the situation, to date the only response I've ever received was.. He'll be ok,

I like your response that I have bolded above, tonight when I get home I am going to try this approach. As I mentioned several times, we have had a good (albeit indifferent) relationship with both the caregiver and the individual for 4 of the 5 years, however over the past year something has changed and it's having an obvious effect on the health of the individual and neighbours

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by Delgar

I'm perplexed by the posters who say leave it to the professionals--- CPS, AHS, etc.. Once someone with mental health issues is running through through your neighborhood threatening someone with a knife, its not time to just sit back and assume everyone involved is doing their jobs. Its time to make an issue of it. Even if there weren't mental health issues, its time to start asking why this person is free. Who made this decision and on what grounds?

The officials involved may have neglected this case, it could be misdiagnosed, it could be mishandled, possibly understaffed, and that this incident happened at all suggests something is not right.

Were this to have happened on my street I'd be all over every official involved, to make sure this is addressed and handled properly, whatever that may lead to. Maybe the person stays, maybe not, but given the violent outburst there is serious cause for concern.

I have no idea if this person should be allowed to still live where they do, but I'd make damn sure to raise enough noise that I know this isn't falling through the cracks, and I'd create a trail of accountability in case something really bad happens.

There are many issues with AHS and their support system for individuals with special needs and living with mental illness. The system is severely under-funded, under-staffed and incapable of dealing effectively with the people and families who need their care and support. My cousin is one such individual. There have been numerous directions which have been taken in an attempt to provide her with a reasonable lifestyle and to deal effectively with her issues. There have been some successes for periods of time but things always deteriorate and the situation gets worse. Being able to get long term, supervised care is not a quick and easy situation. My cousin has been in the hospital for 8 months now. AHS and their networks have been trying to find suitable and necessary care for about 6 months and to date they have no reasonable leads or options.

It is not a good and effective system for anyone involved. In the OP's case, CPS and AHS will only remove the person if it is an absolute crisis because, in reality, they have no place to move that person to.

[MacDaddy77]

my last comments on this then I am not going to post.

1. yes the incident was between 2 members of the household we are living right beside, my wife is a stay at home mom and the incident was precluded by a couple days of the individual walking around the back yard yelling and growling, the morning of the latest incident he was screaming in a demonic voice, I overheard the other individual (also mentally challenged) come out of the house screaming he was being chased with a knife, another neighbour must have heard earlier as the police we already showing up so I went inside.

2. moving, while a burden is of course an avenue and we are exploring that as well however, I have a genuine compassion and concern that this individual is not receiving the care he should be, us moving isn't changing that.

3. I'm not looking to start a witch hunt on mentally challenged people, I grew up with people having different mental challenges with my grandmother running a group home, I would like to see this person get the help he needs, if that means he has to be transferred to a different place so be it if that's what best. I'll reiterate for the first 4 years we had ZERO concern living next to this neighbour.

4. I'd like to thank everyone for the feedback, I am making calls to AHS and CPS today just to speak with someone and have my concerns known and provide a statement of the hours the caregiver is not around (we started keeping a log after the incident, i failed to mention this before). as others have mentioned. I will also speak with the caregiver and take the approach Para Transit fellow advised on

at the end of the day I'd like to know that my family is safe and that this person is getting the care they should be.

[The Fonz]

I'm shocked by the way MacDaddy was piled on for simply expressing concern over the safety of his family and the care this individual is being provided. Not once did he throw out a "lock him up" suggestion... And not once did he come off as insensitive to the guy with mental issues.

If MacDaddy did/does not call the proper authorities to question the care this person has been receiving, he'd be an awful husband and father. The man obviously needs 24/7 care, which he obviously does not have at this time since he was running around outside with a knife.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by para transit fellow

WOW

67 posts and not one suggestion of having a chat with the caregiver about what the fellow needs and how to help keep an eye on the fellow.

unless I missed it?

get the emergency contact list, request advice about the protocol of what to do if fellow is acting out. Then you know what to look for and who to call.

That is what we did in my neighborhood when an apartment complex aimed at folks with mental illness was built. Yes, there were a couple of incidents where couches came off the upper balconies but it's been quiet the past decade.

Oh wow, someone who knows how to deal with the situation without beating around the bush because we feel we need to be afraid of people with these conditions. If there's one thing that's sad about this, it's that people feel a third party should be the one to deal with all their troubles. When the most effective solution is probably to meet with this individual and care giver face to face in order to properly understand how to handle the situation when it arises. Oh but bad idea, he'll probably stab you if you walked over there...

We're all mentally ill to an extent, doesn't mean people who have it worse than others are not human, and can't be dealt with in a humanly manner. The best treatment is to understand it, rather than cower away in fear. At least you'll know who to talk to and what to do and if it's even needed, and maybe you yourself can help, too. You're neighbours, after all. Do we do that anymore?