Dilemma: Supporting the Calgary Flames after Mount Polley mine disaster

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

We didn't start the us vs them. I think many people are generally tired of the attitude in BC that they are angelic stewards of the land, and the red plates are some menacing force of destruction. Just look at the ridiculous attempts to pin this disaster elsewhere. Obviously British Columbia couldn't be responsible for a terrible environmental accident. This must be Alberta's fault, because that's where 1/3 of the money came from. A lot of people need to drive past Hope or North to see how supernatural things really are.

One guy wondering if the companies majority owner should take blame is blaming this on Alberta? Ok.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by Kipper is King

Well...insulting people is not a great move if you're expecting empathy, I gotta say.

I do care about the environment. Many Albertans do. I also support the oil and gas industry as it is a really critical part of the economy and daily life of all Canadians. The device you just wrote this post on wouldn't exist if it wasn't for the hydrocarbon industry.

I hope the cleanup goes as well as possible.

I'm Albertan through and through but don't have the blinders on like that man. The oil industry (and others to be included) is ripping apart the province to a massive degree with very little concern for the future and only bottom line. The argument will never be that the hydrocarbon industry needs to exist, but that it should be controlled and regulated properly to minimize damages to our province and the entire world. Generalizing the issue like you have makes us all sound like country bumpkins to the rest of the world and its revolting how many people in the province have the opinion you do, the majority of which have never set foot near an oil field or seen devastating mining/logging continue to skyrocket relatively unregulated.

OP - Don't hold the Flames accountable for this issue. There are many ownership groups in many sports realms that are doing things just like this. It's not like the Calgary Flames are personally causing this destruction. Don't attend the games and start raising awareness towards those truly responsible if you're really that worked up about it.

[LanceUppercut]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

The oil industry (and others to be included) is ripping apart the province to a massive degree

Citation needed.

[LanceUppercut]

Originally Posted by fotze

That sounds like bumpkin talk, bumpkin.

Well I did hear it on the Turnip cart heading to town.

[Arya Stark]

This actually makes it easier to hate the Vancouver Canucks knowing it is most likely Canuck fans who profited from working at the mines.

[Flamenspiel]

Well Thymebalm, I would say if you feel strongly about it, I think you should move on. At this stage the Flames can sell your seats and other items to other customers, it will have no impact.

But before you start rooting for the Canucks, I suggest you look up the Aquilini family, they are not completely clean(see wilkepdia and maple ridge news) from an environmental standpoint.

[Flames in 07]

If I had a dollar for ever time someone from bc or Quebec had to make themselves feel better by crapping on alberta, I wouldn't care so much about transfer payments.

The way this would work if I thought like typical bc guy is that I blame and hate bc because this disaster happened in bc. That, and I can't fly over bc for 3 minutes without seeing the side of a mountain stripped of its trees.

Edit: come to think of it, now it hate Ontario to. You know how many cars they make? I mean, I demand one an drive it all over, expelling emissions. But dammit, Ontario made it so screw those environazis!

[blender]

Originally Posted by Flames in 07

If I had a dollar for ever time someone from bc or Quebec had to make themselves feel better by crapping on alberta, I wouldn't care so much about transfer payments.

The way this would work if I thought like typical bc guy is that I blame and hate bc because this disaster happened in bc. That, and I can't fly over bc for 3 minutes without seeing the side of a mountain stripped of its trees.

Edit: come to think of it, now it hate Ontario to. You know how many cars they make? I mean, I demand one an drive it all over, expelling emissions. But dammit, Ontario made it so screw those environazis!

If you have a problem with transfer payments why don't you go live in the USA and see why Canada is a pretty decent system?
Has it ever occurred to you that the oil sands are a freak accident of geography for Albertans?
Of course, now BC seems to be sitting on a huge amount of LNG, and has a government happy to sell it for far less than its worth, so they can contribute to the collective pot and help make Canada one of the best countries in the world, too.

I don't get why we can't get over all the inter-provincial BS we spew. I grew up in Alberta, now live in BC, most of my friends have vacation properties out here; we all love each other and when we leave the country or it's the Olympics we are Canada all the way. The rest of the time its bitch and whine about our provincial neighbours.

Mind-bottling, really.

PS: say what you want about Quebec; Canada is not Canada without them, so ask yourself if you like your country or not.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by blender

I don't get why we can't get over all the inter-provincial BS we spew.

Because BC is blocking Alberta's products from getting to appropriate markets. A blockade is a perfectly good reason to dislike them.

[SebC]

I also want to note that Murray Edwards is not a majority owner - 36% is not a majority, even though Canadian governments like to condition us to think it is. It's a plurality.

[Redlan]

As biologist who lived most of my life in BC, and who has worked in the mining industry in BC, worked in the oil and gas industry in both provinces, consulted independently for years in both BC and Aberta, the amount of conjecture and heresy without appropriate knowledge and an impartial opinion is astounding in this thread. The hypocrisy is worse, even from the OP! Sure you ride your bike, maybe as your sole source of transportation...but Mt. Seymour? You do understand that where you chose to ride is in a provincial park where development deforested the side of the mountain for your entertainment, whether in the summer for biking/hiking or winter for skiing/snowshoeing? The amount of habitat loss for wildlife, erosion due to deforestation and human - ecosystem interaction can lead to wildlife habituation, fatal encounters and introduction of non-native plants and animals. Even on a micro scale, I have seen many minnows and tadpoles in streams, or isolated by retrieving freshet or seasonal flood waters, run over by errant mountain bikers. We all have a footprint which tends to focus on the actions of others and what others can do for change and not on what we can do to reduce it. I do sympathize and understand the OP's frustration but to try and make ethical stands like this would most likely result in the boycott of almost every product, resource, service and activity with a small amount of investigation.


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[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by SebC

I also want to note that Murray Edwards is not a majority owner - 36% is not a majority, even though Canadian governments like to condition us to think it is. It's a plurality.

You don't always need a majority share in order to have a controlling share.

[MarkGio]

Originally Posted by Redlan

As biologist who lived most of my life in BC, and who has worked in the mining industry in BC, worked in the oil and gas industry in both provinces, consulted independently for years in both BC and Aberta, the amount of conjecture and heresy without appropriate knowledge and an impartial opinion is astounding in this thread. The hypocrisy is worse, even from the OP! Sure you ride your bike, maybe as your sole source of transportation...but Mt. Seymour? You do understand that where you chose to ride is in a provincial park where development deforested the side of the mountain for your entertainment, whether in the summer for biking/hiking or winter for skiing/snowshoeing? The amount of habitat loss for wildlife, erosion due to deforestation and human - ecosystem interaction can lead to wildlife habituation, fatal encounters and introduction of non-native plants and animals. Even on a micro scale, I have seen many minnows and tadpoles in streams, or isolated by retrieving freshet or seasonal flood waters, run over by errant mountain bikers. We all have a footprint which tends to focus on the actions of others and what others can do for change and not on what we can do to reduce it. I do sympathize and understand the OP's frustration but to try and make ethical stands like this would most likely result in the boycott of almost every product, resource, service and activity with a small amount of investigation.


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So you're a part of the problem but have the gully to call the OP a hypocrite. The guy is pissed off about one of the biggest environmental disasters in BC history. While I believe the stance he's taken will have minimal impact, the fight has to start somewhere. Now if every person were to rally behind him, it would be most likely that the Flames and Edwards would suffer more than Imperial, but shareholders have a responsibility to.

I don't buy stocks in tobacco companies (as an example) and outfits that have an utter disregard for the planet.

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Originally Posted by MarkGio

So you're a part of the problem but have the gully to call the OP a hypocrite. The guy is pissed off about one of the biggest environmental disasters in BC history. While I believe the stance he's taken will have minimal impact, the fight has to start somewhere. Now if every person were to rally behind him, it would be most likely that the Flames and Edwards would suffer more than Imperial, but shareholders have a responsibility to.

I don't buy stocks in tobacco companies (as an example) and outfits that have an utter disregard for the planet.

Rather then spend a bunch of time picking apart this post, I'm going to assume you simply misinterpreted the point Redlan was trying to make.

It was a factual post from someone in the industry trying to shed some light on the industry. I'd take that post 10 times out of 10 over the countless posts from uninformed posters trying to stir the pot.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

Rather then spend a bunch of time picking apart this post, I'm going to assume you simply misinterpreted the point Redlan was trying to make.

It was a factual post from someone in the industry trying to shed some light on the industry. I'd take that post 10 times out of 10 over the countless posts from uninformed posters trying to stir the pot.

It sounded more like someone saying unless you live off the land, fashion your clothes from animals you kill and live in a naturally occurring cave, you can't criticise environmental or economic policy.

[Weitz]

I think you all are blowing this out of proportion. The BC government isn't even calling it an environmental disaster.

"B.C. Mines Minister Bill Bennett says the Mount Polley tailings dam collapse is not an environmental disaster, equating it to the “thousands” of avalanches that happen annually in B.C."

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Mou...949/story.html

As always its media fear mongering when it comes to environmental debate.

[IamNotKenKing]

Originally Posted by Weitz

I think you all are blowing this out of proportion. The BC government isn't even calling it an environmental disaster.

"B.C. Mines Minister Bill Bennett says the Mount Polley tailings dam collapse is not an environmental disaster, equating it to the “thousands” of avalanches that happen annually in B.C."

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Mou...949/story.html

As always its media fear mongering when it comes to environmental debate.

WHAT?!?! But I thought it was the worst natural disaster in Canadian history, and was to turn Beautiful British Columbia into a post-apocalyptic wasteland, the likes of which have not been seen since Mad Max? Surely this cannot be!

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Originally Posted by MarkGio

So you're a part of the problem but have the gully to call the OP a hypocrite. The guy is pissed off about one of the biggest environmental disasters in BC history. While I believe the stance he's taken will have minimal impact, the fight has to start somewhere. Now if every person were to rally behind him, it would be most likely that the Flames and Edwards would suffer more than Imperial, but shareholders have a responsibility to.

I don't buy stocks in tobacco companies (as an example) and outfits that have an utter disregard for the planet.

Whoa, part of the problem? The biologist that has worked in both BC and Alberta, for governments and industry and who showed more insight into the issues in 6 sentences, than this site captured in 12 pages? I don't think so.
While you and the OP have every right to "fight", I would submit that Redlan is simply suggesting that you have a good idea as to whom you are fighting and what you are fighting for. The Flames? Industry? The government? The Flames seem completely misguided, but if it is industry and government, then it is best to understand what the regulations now say and whether Imperial followed said regulations before getting too carried away. Even the quote "one of the biggest environmental disasters in BC" has hardly been determined, based on initial water testing.

The environment is a motherhood issue: no one is against it, and everyone, including Edwards, government and industry, want a healthy sustainable environment. I know that is hard for some to believe, but a healthy community is important for a healthy business (and vice-versa).

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by Weitz

I think you all are blowing this out of proportion. The BC government isn't even calling it an environmental disaster.

"B.C. Mines Minister Bill Bennett says the Mount Polley tailings dam collapse is not an environmental disaster, equating it to the “thousands” of avalanches that happen annually in B.C."

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Mou...949/story.html

As always its media fear mongering when it comes to environmental debate.

Are you serious?

[SebC]

Originally Posted by Roughneck

You don't always need a majority share in order to have a controlling share.

Is it known that he has a controlling share? Or are you just saying that it's possible?