ISIS militants attack and take over Iraqi northern city of Mosul

[smoothpops]

Did anyone else catch the "ask me anything" done by the Kurd who was in the region, today? it was fascinating, and gave me (slight) optimism that stability can be achieved in (northern) Iraq.

http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comment..._half_an_hour/

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Yeah, peace is always possible. We need to change their hearts and minds though and that will take time, which some don't have.

http://pathwaystopeace.org/international-day-of-peace/

I'm not sure 'we' can change any hearts and minds, I tend to think that 'they' will have to settle the issues without us, I can see efficacy for providing air support for the Kurds and arming the crap out of them, regardless of how much that pisses off turkey, but I don't think we can do much else, we're a bull in a china shop over there, pretty much everything we touch turns bad, we just don't understand the issues, history or depth of the region well enough,

Like Europe in the 17th and 18th centuries unfortunately I suspect the region will go through several decades of ethnic cleansing and border redrawing no matter what anyone does.

[Ben_in_Canada]

Wasn't sure if I should put this here or in the "I Don't want to live on this planet anymore' thread

http://news.ca.msn.com/top-stories/j...s-severed-head


Look at the crazy eyes on that ####er

[Boblobla]

Sounds like Maliki is out as Prime Minister, with the VP being nominated as the replacement.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/liv...y-live-updates

[nik-]

These guys are monsters. Legitimately in Einsatzgruppen territory. When you're on par with some of the worst in history, that's pretty bad. Crazy that it's contemporary.

[Muta]

Ironically, more people probably die in the name of religion than for any other conflict-based reason.

Why do Islamist extremists care so much what everyone else follows? I don't understand why people can't just practice what they want to and not be so butthurt about others' decisions all the time. Plus, it seems like a lot of work to consistently care what someone else believes, all the time.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Muta

Ironically, more people probably die in the name of religion than for any other conflict-based reason.

Why do Islamist extremists care so much what everyone else follows? I don't understand why people can't just practice what they want to and not be so butthurt about others' decisions all the time. Plus, it seems like a lot of work to consistently care what someone else believes, all the time.

Because these crazies believe that there is no religion but Islam and it is the only way to live and they are doing gods work by making you kneel in front of them.

There is no reforming of these nut cases, they and especially ISIS members are modern day versions of the Christian Crusades determined to re-establish a Islamic Empire that encompasses all of the middle east and a large chunk of Eastern Europe and Asia.

These people aren't about being angry at the States or the Western World, that's a smoke show, these people are determined to follow a path of righteousness and religious cleansing and eventually martyrdom.

So they care deeply about converting others because its their path to paradise to enlighten the world.

The Christian Crusades were incredibly blood with Priests cheering on knights as they slaughtered and raped and destroyed.

This is the same thing with modern weapons .

I often wonder how many of these crazies are actually sincere fundamentalists and how many are just psychopaths who saw a chance to kill people en-masse and in the bloodiest way possible and signed up, and how many are highly paid mercenaries.

But they're not going to stop unless they're brutally stopped, this group is not going to form a government and moderate themselves over time.

Right now Iran is looking at this as an opportunity. ISIS wants all of Iraq, if they get it, any justification will bring about Iranian intervention into Iraq and that is going to make Israel incredibly nervous.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by nik-

These guys are monsters. Legitimately in Einsatzgruppen territory. When you're on par with some of the worst in history, that's pretty bad. Crazy that it's contemporary.

I don't know if they are quite in the territory of worst in history, Genghis Khan and Tamerlane were probably worse in terms of the pure homicidal edge and commitment of their armies to create fear.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I don't know if they are quite in the territory of worst in history, Genghis Khan and Tamerlane were probably worse in terms of the pure homicidal edge and commitment of their armies to create fear.

Well the scales are obviously different but I'd put just mass executing pits full of people and then putting heads on fence posts in the town right up there.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Ben_in_Canada

Wasn't sure if I should put this here or in the "I Don't want to live on this planet anymore' thread

http://news.ca.msn.com/top-stories/j...s-severed-head


Look at the crazy eyes on that ####er

Additionally maybe it's not crazy eyes. Maybe he's ####ting his pants because a 5 year old has a pistol pointed in the general direction of his head.

[Ark2]

Originally Posted by BigBrodieFan

You took the words out of my mouth- but you did it more diplomatically. I agree. Religion is the entire basis of the downfall of human kind. Until people grasp the fact that instead of living in 'what happens when we die' instead of 'what happens while we live' there will never be a logical explanation to the idiocy that is religion- the downfall of human kind. It's really that simple.

This is not true. Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot, Mao, etc. perpetrated some of the worst atrocities of human history, and it had nothing to do with Religion. What we are seeing right now runs far deeper than religion.

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by Ark2

This is not true. Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot, Mao, etc. perpetrated some of the worst atrocities of human history, and it had nothing to do with Religion. What we are seeing right now runs far deeper than religion.

sheesh...here we go again. Do some research

[Ark2]

Originally Posted by Cheese

sheesh...here we go again. Do some research

Sorry if I am re-treading over familiar ground. Could you please point me in the direction where this was already discussed?

[blankall]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

No, I'm suggesting that if you make the decision to support Israel you have the good sense to realize that makes it impossible for you to be seen as a neutral and trustworthy party to Sunni and, to a lesser degree, Shia Arabs.

Regardless those grossof the rights and wrongs of it Arabs will always consider the US and Israel as the enemy.

Or to use a previous example the UK is in no place to act as a neutral party between Protestant and catholic Irish no matter how well intentioned they are.

This isn't remotely true. The biggest arab powers, the Saudis, are strong US allies. So are the Egyptians and Jordanians. If the US gave up support for Israel, groups like ISIS would still besobsand still want to kill Americans. Americans would not want to appease those groups anyways.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Ark2

This is not true. Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot, Mao, etc. perpetrated some of the worst atrocities of human history, and it had nothing to do with Religion. What we are seeing right now runs far deeper than religion.

You can't argue that wars of religion haven't killed millions, both in the far past, IE: Crusades and closer to the present.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

You can't argue that wars of religion haven't killed millions, both in the far past, IE: Crusades and closer to the present.

I would agree with that, but I would agree that both Political based theory and economics have killed just as many if not more people then religion.

[nik-]

The common denominator is humans. We'll find a reason to murder in large numbers. Religion, land, resources, nationalism, "security" ... we'll find it.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I don't know if they are quite in the territory of worst in history, Genghis Khan and Tamerlane were probably worse in terms of the pure homicidal edge and commitment of their armies to create fear.

If I didn't see what these crazies are doing in pictures and videos that they themselves have posted, I'd be inclined to think that it was over the top propaganda. Instead these guys are far to real and it's disturbing that so called educated modern minds can sink so low.

In Genghis Khan's and Tamerlane's times there was no real rule of law, so might was right but I would think that in our day when we are supposed to be above this we would act better.

The ISIS crazies are experiencing a type of twisted religious ferver maybe equivalent to what the Vikings had when going to war. This is pretty hard to combat when what they experience is so wild that they think it's the end all and be all of human experience and so everything else is wrong. This is why they can't accept other religions because they truly believe they're right.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I would agree with that, but I would agree that both Political based theory and economics have killed just as many if not more people then religion.

I am not saying you are wrong. But, if we are speaking about Christianity for example, that religion is based on peace (for want of a better term).

[Shnabdabber]

http://m.liveleak.com/view?i=87e_1407693934

Isis supporters are gathering steam in Europe, this demonstration was from the Netherlands.

Of course this gets a far right response, ingrained in nationalism and a fear of immigration. Don't know if I can blame them or not.