ISIS militants attack and take over Iraqi northern city of Mosul

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

There is no solution to ISIS either then wiping its poisonous ideology out of existence. They're actively recruiting as many crazy murderous thugs as they can from every country. Thrill killers, people that are full of hate and anger and giving them weapons and letting them fill their boots.

There's no educating the core group of ISIS leadership or soldiers away from that group. There's no moderating them over time, there's no non violent solution to their disease.

They swell their effectiveness through non discriminant slaughter and belligerence.

The ultimate solution would be to eliminate their leaders and those that take their leaders place.

But at the same time the solution is to kill everyone under that murderous banner.

If you capture them right down to their foot soldiers you either kill em or make sure they never see freedom again.

The sad fact of the matter is that whether the civilians are bombed by Western planes or murdered by ISIS if they don't basically join that twisted society, they are going to be equally punished.

As ISIS consolidates their power on their held areas they are going to murder everyone that they don't like.

ISIS is a cancer, and the only solution to cancer is to kill it and stop it from spreading.

They swell because 'we' the Christian west, specifically the US have caused the deaths of hundreds and thousands of their fellow Muslims, we have given, rightly or wrongly, Israel a blank cheque to kill Muslims in their eyes.
If I was a twenty year old Muslim I'd be about ready to kill someone by now.
We will kill these idiots, but then random sunni's will be killed in revenge by Kurds and Shia, the Sunnis will vow revenge and this idiocy will continue.
Each round of revenge just gets more evil, more violent.

[lanny9]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

Lets be frank, we will kill thousands of innocent random Sunnis as we bomb ISIS, and that doesn't factor what the Peshmerga and Shia will do to surviving Sunni after ISIS is wiped out in the name of revenge and holy jihad.
I doubt this ends before another 50 to 100,000 poor saps go to whichever God they believe in, most in indescribably gruesome ways.

Good damn I hate Bush, if one good thing comes out of this I hope someone blows that dimwitted bell end to hell.

Although the reason for originally going into Iraq was flawed, the world is a better place without Hussain. Problem really is that the Iraqi people, or more so government didn't want the Americans there any longer. Had the Americans been able to keep 10,000 troops there they would have been able to stop ISIS dead in their tracks when they came back over the border from Syria. The pullout was too early and left a huge power vacuum in the country and under this government they have not been inclusive of minorities which allowed ISIS to get as strong as they have. This includes disbanding the armed forces and creating a mainly shia army with no proper training nor desire to do any heavy lifting. When the times got tough they ran like little school girls, they were there for a pay cheque, not to put their lives on the line.

Anyways, going forward what is the course of action? I don't think these pin prick bombings are going to stop ISIS' s lust for blood. More regular bombings and unfortunately maybe NATO or god forbid UN boots on the ground is what will be the game changer. And maybe a peace keeping force will have to stay for a decade after, until these groups can learn to live together and have an inclusive, operational government structure fully in place. We will also have to bomb their bases in Syria so as to not allow them to regroup.

All I know is there is a lot going on in the world right now, none of it good, and most areas are going to get worse over the next months and unfortunately with a group like ISIS we cannot turn our back as it is only a matter of time before they hit the west, especially if we allow them to hold land, further organize and recruit. This is why we need to hit them hard and take care of business or it will end up on our shores one way or another.

[lanny9]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

They swell because 'we' the Christian west, specifically the US have caused the deaths of hundreds and thousands of their fellow Muslims, we have given, rightly or wrongly, Israel a blank cheque to kill Muslims in their eyes.
If I was a twenty year old Muslim I'd be about ready to kill someone by now.
We will kill these idiots, but then random sunni's will be killed in revenge by Kurds and Shia, the Sunnis will vow revenge and this idiocy will continue.
Each round of revenge just gets more evil, more violent.

That is why a peacekeeping force will have to remain when this is all said and done. This force will have to be made up of western, eastern and middle eastern troops. Only then will the bloodshed stop (hopefully)

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by lanny9

Although the reason for originally going into Iraq was flawed, the world is a better place without Hussain. Problem really is that the Iraqi people, or more so government didn't want the Americans there any longer. Had the Americans been able to keep 10,000 troops there they would have been able to stop ISIS dead in their tracks when they came back over the border from Syria. The pullout was too early and left a huge power vacuum in the country and under this government they have not been inclusive of minorities which allowed ISIS to get as strong as they have. This includes disbanding the armed forces and creating a mainly shia army with no proper training nor desire to do any heavy lifting. When the times got tough they ran like little school girls, they were there for a pay cheque, not to put their lives on the line.

Anyways, going forward what is the course of action? I don't think these pin prick bombings are going to stop ISIS' s lust for blood. More regular bombings and unfortunately maybe NATO or god forbid UN boots on the ground is what will be the game changer. And maybe a peace keeping force will have to stay for a decade after, until these groups can learn to live together and have an inclusive, operational government structure fully in place. We will also have to bomb their bases in Syria so as to not allow them to regroup.

All I know is there is a lot going on in the world right now, none of it good, and most areas are going to get worse over the next months and unfortunately with a group like ISIS we cannot turn our back as it is only a matter of time before they hit the west, especially if we allow them to hold land, further organize and recruit. This is why we need to hit them hard and take care of business or it will end up on our shores one way or another.

I'm sorry but the world is not a better place without Hussain, assuming you think a unified and relatively modern Iraq is a better outcome than a decade or two of bloody civil war ending in two or three medieval theocracies.
Hussain was no better or worse than any other ruler in the region and at least he was secular, like Assad, who, Incidently we will miss if he falls.
Ghaddifi looks like a positive saint compared to what is replacing him.

And it will take more than ten thousand on the ground to hold this crapfest of death together, because you may go in as welcomed peacekeepers, but within a few months they will all want our troops dead as well. Remember the british went into N Ireland as welcomed protectors of the catholic minority, you can see film of the Catholics clapping as they set up road blocks in Derry, that never lasts though, a month or two later you are under siege and need 100,000 or more to hold the place, on top of that 'we' support Israel, which makes us the friend of their enemy, which is not good in an Arab country.

[afc wimbledon]

If we have any sense we will let Russia arm Assad to the teeth and let him deal with ISIS, there is no non murdering extremist alternative to him either. I don't know why we don't get this. Your choice is the classic South Park turd or crap sandwich, and on the whole the less religious is always the better choice in the Middle East.

[BigBrodieFan]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

There is no solution to ISIS either then wiping its poisonous ideology out of existence. They're actively recruiting as many crazy murderous thugs as they can from every country. Thrill killers, people that are full of hate and anger and giving them weapons and letting them fill their boots.

There's no educating the core group of ISIS leadership or soldiers away from that group. There's no moderating them over time, there's no non violent solution to their disease.

They swell their effectiveness through non discriminant slaughter and belligerence.

The ultimate solution would be to eliminate their leaders and those that take their leaders place.

But at the same time the solution is to kill everyone under that murderous banner.

If you capture them right down to their foot soldiers you either kill em or make sure they never see freedom again.

The sad fact of the matter is that whether the civilians are bombed by Western planes or murdered by ISIS if they don't basically join that twisted society, they are going to be equally punished.

As ISIS consolidates their power on their held areas they are going to murder everyone that they don't like.

ISIS is a cancer, and the only solution to cancer is to kill it and stop it from spreading.

You took the words out of my mouth- but you did it more diplomatically. I agree. Religion is the entire basis of the downfall of human kind. Until people grasp the fact that instead of living in 'what happens when we die' instead of 'what happens while we live' there will never be a logical explanation to the idiocy that is religion- the downfall of human kind. It's really that simple.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by BigBrodieFan

You took the words out of my mouth- but you did it more diplomatically. I agree. Religion is the entire basis of the downfall of human kind. Until people grasp the fact that instead of living in 'what happens when we die' instead of 'what happens while we live' there will never be a logical explanation to the idiocy that is religion- the downfall of human kind. It's really that simple.

Religion just gives us a good excuse to rape pillage and behead but we'd do it anyway given an absence of government, trust me, take away the RCMP and dimwits in Vancouver would have been crucifieing boston fans and raping their ugly assed terriers.

[cam_wmh]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

If we have any sense we will let Russia arm Assad to the teeth and let him deal with ISIS, there is no non murdering extremist alternative to him either. I don't know why we don't get this. Your choice is the classic South Park turd or crap sandwich, and on the whole the less religious is always the better choice in the Middle East.

I like the Russian intervention idea, but I don't know how warm they would be to the west's suggestion, considering the Ukraine scenario -- sanctions.

[BigBrodieFan]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

Religion just gives us a good excuse to rape pillage and behead but we'd do it anyway given an absence of government, trust me, take away the RCMP and dimwits in Vancouver would have been crucifieing boston fans and raping their ugly assed terriers.

Humanity without religion is like a serial killer without a chainsaw.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by BigBrodieFan

Humanity without religion is like a serial killer without a chainsaw.

Nope.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by BigBrodieFan

Humanity without religion is like a serial killer without a chainsaw.

We are a nasty brutish ape no matter what, in our natural state we eat each other, religion at least led to civilization and, ironically secularism, personally I think it's a toss up between the lives saved by the development of civilization that was a direct outcome of religion and the lives lost due to it.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by cam_wmh

I like the Russian intervention idea, but I don't know how warm they would be to the west's suggestion, considering the Ukraine scenario -- sanctions.

They have more to lose if Assad falls.

[sureLoss]

US bomb 5 targets in 5 hours and Kurdish forces have taken back two towns from ISIS:

http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/10/world/...html?hpt=hp_t2

[Boblobla]

I really hope this is a small bombing offensive to allow the Kurds and Syrians to retake cities from ISIS. It is frustrating that the Arab League(i think think that is what they are called) does nothing and waits for the west (US) to take care of the problem.

Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

And it will take more than ten thousand on the ground to hold this crapfest of death together, because you may go in as welcomed peacekeepers, but within a few months they will all want our troops dead as well. Remember the british went into N Ireland as welcomed protectors of the catholic minority, you can see film of the Catholics clapping as they set up road blocks in Derry, that never lasts though,

What a half truth, biased comment which suggests to an uneducated person on the matter a random flippant turn on the "peacekeepers" with zero effort to explain why this was.

Why don't you continue and give the reasons for the complete distrust and failure of the British Army as peace keepers. Yes, they were welcomed in as protection against the Police and Loyalists but turned out to be just as murderous. Why don't you mention the shooting dead of civilians? And I'm referring to BEFORE as well as Bloody Sunday.

Maybe if the peacekeepers, you know ... kept the peace, instead of shooting and the people they are supposed to protect there might be more trust.

Apologies for going OT but had to be responded to.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Bagor

What a half truth, biased comment which suggests to an uneducated person on the matter a random flippant turn on the "peacekeepers" with zero effort to explain why this was.

Why don't you continue and give the reasons for the complete distrust and failure of the British Army as peace keepers. Yes, they were welcomed in as protection against the Police and Loyalists but turned out to be just as murderous. Why don't you mention the shooting dead of civilians? And I'm referring to BEFORE as well as Bloody Sunday.

Maybe if the peacekeepers, you know ... kept the peace, instead of shooting and the people they are supposed to protect there might be more trust.

Apologies for going OT but had to be responded to.

That's my point though, 40 odd years on your still pissed some dumb squaddie from Huddersfield or the like did what squaddies always do, figured all 'paddies' (no offence intended) were the same and shot some poor ####### who was in the wrong place at the wrong time, you think it would be any different in Tikrit?
It will take less than a day for a mistake to be made, after all at least in Derry they weren't worried about suicide vests, in Iraq the troops will rightfully be even jumpier and more trigger happy.
There's no such thing as peacekeeping in Iraq, if we go back in the various factions, Shia, Sunni, tribal will eventually (ie in about a week or two) hate us as occupiers

[Vulcan]

In the meantime, lets get rid of ISIS as soon as possible and let the chips fall where they may. These guys have become a threat to us.

I agree about Bush opening up a can of worms that he should have left well enough alone but it's gone past the point of blame.

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

That's my point though, 40 odd years on your still pissed some dumb squaddie from Huddersfield or the like did what squaddies always do, figured all 'paddies' (no offence intended) were the same and shot some poor ####### who was in the wrong place at the wrong time, you think it would be any different in Tikrit?
It will take less than a day for a mistake to be made, after all at least in Derry they weren't worried about suicide vests, in Iraq the troops will rightfully be even jumpier and more trigger happy.
There's no such thing as peacekeeping in Iraq, if we go back in the various factions, Shia, Sunni, tribal will eventually (ie in about a week or two) hate us as occupiers

Yeah, I can't disagree with that.

Which is why I always when I heard the phrase, hearts and minds. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hearts_...nds_%28Iraq%29

Was that serious or a cover up for something else? Were they really that delusional?

[lanny9]

The problem was not getting rid of Hussain, the problem was after the fact. The UN should have stepped in as peacekeepers and enough pressure should have been put on the new government to remain inclusive like they stated they would when forming government. The US could have held back military support, oil and gas technologies and hundreds more things that the government would have wanted/needed. Problem was the US instead of putting pressure on them just pulled out and said adios, Obama dropped the ball there and has to shoulder some of the responsibility. His administration should have gone to the UN and created enough worldwide pressure that the Iraqi government would have had to say yes to peacekeepers as well as some US military for support.

The thing is, you cannot just dispose of a dictator and expect a free and open society like the west. These people have grown to only know one thing, but at the same time wanting what the west has. Problem is they do not know how to handle the freedoms yet and as such turn to violence as a means to get what they want democratically. With a peacekeeping force in there you could have allowed cooler heads to prevail and the militants wouldn't have been able to take advantage of the situation created by a government like al Maliki's whose sole purpose was to make a society that only the Shia's could enjoy.

Peacekeeping forces can do good things if given the chance, the UN needs to grow a pair as does the Arab League, both should have been in there before the US pulled out(well before) but mistakes were made. Saying the people were better off under Hussain is incorrect, they didn't have their freedoms, he had his share of atrocities using mustard gas, mass killings etc, that is no way to "keep people in line" The mistakes made after they got rid of him made for this mess, if handled better I don't think Iraq would be in this mess right now.

[afc wimbledon]

The US is probably the dumbest superpower the world has ever seen, not withstanding it's enormous technical superiority, they honestly don't understand that vast swathes of the world hate them, in some cases with good reason, they don't seem to comprehend that supporting Israel fatally compromises their ability to do much in the Arab world or that the world is made up of shades of grey, not the simple black and white they want to believe in.
I used to think it was just the average American that was this simple but it becomes increasingly clear even those in,power are clueless down south.

Scary really.