[News] Kevin Hayes signs with the Rangers

[Finger Cookin]

Originally Posted by codynw

Can we change thread title to "Sven Baertschi discussion"?

Next week after Hayes signs elsewhere.

[Rick M.]

Originally Posted by codynw

Can we change thread title to "Sven Baertschi discussion"?

That would be preferable to "Sven Baertschi is no good".

[Nehkara]

That was a great post Calgary4Life.

My biggest complaint is that people are saying, "If he doesn't perform this year then get rid of him."

I hope that is a thing of the past in Calgary.

Sven has huge upside and I really like him as a player. When he is ready, I want him to be a CALGARY FLAME. Not a Ranger or a Shark or a Red Wing.

Give him the time he needs, whether it be 2014 or 2016.


Also, Kevin Hayes in a Flames jersey in 7 days.

[The Fonz]

Sven's a better player than Backlund was at the same age.

I'm confident Sven turns into a legitimate 2nd line LW, with 1st line potential. But it's going to take a few more years. People just need to be patient.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

Colborne was physically a much superior player out there (physically!). He won a lot of puck battles and was generally hard to play against. When Colborne didn't impress, he got benched. When Monahan didn't impress, he got his ice-time severely cut. Conversely, when Baertschi had good games, he got increased ice-time and responsibilities (heck, Hartley gave him 20+ minutes in one game - the most out of all forwards IIRC). It wasn't that Hartley had it 'in' for Baertschi. It is that Baertschi simply wasn't ready and didn't bring enough CONSISTENTLY to the Flames.

You're misremembering how Colborne was treated this year. His ice time was actually increased as the early season went on, and he was most assuredly not earning it. There was absolutely not equal treatment between Baertschi and other players on the team. That doesn't mean he didn't have bad games, he definitely did, but he was far from alone, yet experienced harsher treatment.

You just trotted out an ideal situation that didn't actually happen. Everything you said is good in theory, but that's not how it played out last year.

[The Fonz]

^^I agree. I thought Baertschi was playing better than Colborne early in the season, but Colborne was getting better opportunities.

[Rick M.]

Originally Posted by Nehkara

That was a great post Calgary4Life.

My biggest complaint is that people are saying, "If he doesn't perform this year then get rid of him."

I hope that is a thing of the past in Calgary.

Sven has huge upside and I really like him as a player. When he is ready, I want him to be a CALGARY FLAME. Not a Ranger or a Shark or a Red Wing.

Give him the time he needs, whether it be 2014 or 2016.


Also, Kevin Hayes in a Flames jersey in 7 days.

I don't think anyone's saying 'get rid of him'. What is being noted is that this is the last year he'll be able to bounce back and forth between the NHL and AHL. In 2015 he'll have to stay with the Flames or go on waivers if the team wishes to send him to the farm (assuming the Flames don't just leave him on the farm for all of 2015-16). That's why I think he'll either be ready to stay up by the end of the upcoming season or, potentially, be trade bait. I really like Sven and want him to be a Flame but I wouldn't be surprised if the clock is ticking.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by nik-

You're misremembering how Colborne was treated this year. His ice time was actually increased as the early season went on, and he was most assuredly not earning it. There was absolutely not equal treatment between Baertschi and other players on the team. That doesn't mean he didn't have bad games, he definitely did, but he was far from alone, yet experienced harsher treatment.

You just trotted out an ideal situation that didn't actually happen. Everything you said is good in theory, but that's not how it played out last year.

I didn't trot out anything other than what I saw happen.

True or false: During the season, Colborne got his ice time reduced at times.
True or false: Colborne was thrown on the 4th line for a stint.
True or false: Colborne was moved to the wing in an effort to get him more ice-time.
True or false: Baertschi had games where he got substantial ice-time.
Truie or false: Backlund was benched for not meeting expectations.

I think these were all true.

Backlund got his ice-time cut, and was benched. When given another opportunity, he made the most of it - rather consistently, I may add.

Was Baertshi treated more 'harshly'? I don't think so. We apparently saw two very different Baertschis out there. I saw a blue-chip prospect with loads of skill, but who physically wasn't NHL-ready. You saw one that was.

There was nothing unfair about how Baertschi was treated with respect to other prospects. Actually, I will argue that he was unfairly treated - in that Feaster appeared to be forcing him on the team when he was not NHL-ready - and this is what can be most detrimental to a player's development.

[Pierre "Monster" McGuire]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

I guess I should have said this upcoming season. I'm past thinking about last season.

Anyways time is running out for Sven.
As for his defensive game, what I saw of him in Abbotsford, he was pretty good in getting back to help the defence. Where he became ineffective was along the boards where he lost most battles and took a beating. He needs to learn to use his smarts in that situation.

Ditto.

He did improve on his defensive game, which was one of the primary reasons he was sent down in the first place. But like you noted, he's so so so weak along the boards and in the corners. Plus, he gets knocked off the puck way too easily.

[Mike Teavee]

Is Hayes really ready to play in the NHL or is it just that he thinks he is?

[jemjey]

wait i thought this was a sven thread...

[Nehkara]

Originally Posted by jemjey

wait i thought this was a sven thread...

No no. It's a Kevin Baertschi thread.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Nehkara

No no. It's a Kevin Baertschi thread.

This is the post I made that derailed the thread

might be a reason that he would want to sign with the Flames except that the Flames are deep at centre prospects and it would not be hard to imagine Knight or Jooris or Arnold (right handed shooters) or Granlund and Rienhart break into the NHL on the wing.... right wing that could be.

Hudler and Colborne (left handed shooters) are not listed as right wings but played the whole season as such.

I think that Mason Raymond has played both wings .... so with David Jones with 2 more years on his contract the Flames Right wing spot might be covered for the next 2 years with 4 non-goons looking at playing the 3 top RW spots.

On LW there is Glencross and Gaudreau and Bollig and Bouma.


If you go by official designated RW position players he would be the #2 RW in the Bruins organization.

Part of where Kevin Hayes is going to sign would have to be where he feels he has the biggest chance for success. If he is a normal person he would want to get a million bucks this year instead of 200k this year and a lottery ticket for the Million a couple of years down the road.

Some folks thought I was slighting Baertschi when I listed the Flames NHL LW.

All he has to do is be better than Gaudreau (and Granlund and Rienhart)

To make this NHL team Kevin Hayes just has to show he is better than Hudler and Colborne and David Jones to the extent that the Flames are willing to eat his contract. Or he could be a better fighter than McGratton.

He also has to be better than Knight and Arnold who would easily slide over from Centre to play RW if Jones or Colborne are hurt.

Hayes is not in direct competition with Baertschi for a NHL roster spot unless Gaudreau/Hudler or Raymond get hurt and then Baertschi or Granlund will be the front runner.


I don't see the Flames as the best spot for Hayes to break into the NHL.


I am sure that his agents are doing the same sort of analysis to see where Hayes gets the best chance of a NHL payday.

[GreenLantern]

Is it odd that nobody has traded for his rights to try and sign him? Wasn't there more than just the Flames going after Knight last year?

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern

Is it odd that nobody has traded for his rights to try and sign him? Wasn't there more than just the Flames going after Knight last year?

The Blackhawks will receive a compensatory 2nd round pick for losing a first round pick to UFA; that is more valuable than anything that another team would be willing to trade for his rights.

[MarkGio]

I might be among the minority who thinks Baertschi will be better than Gaudreau come September. This is a guy who played at a 2 ppg pace in juniors and then was playing at nearly an NHL ppg pace as a 19year old emergency call up. He's then performed at 0.5ppg NHL pace as a one dimensional player in the dog house with limited ice time.

Make no mistake, Baertschi is a phenomenal talent who flat out dominates when he turns it on. He's now got a younger, Johnny Hockey eyeing major ice time as the Flames best new hot shot. If Baertschi shows up with humility and compete level, its not just Johnny who has his work cut out for him, its Raymond, Hudler, Glencross, Byron and everyone else who thinks they have a spot guaranteed.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by Nehkara

That was a great post Calgary4Life.

My biggest complaint is that people are saying, "If he doesn't perform this year then get rid of him."

I hope that is a thing of the past in Calgary.

Sven has huge upside and I really like him as a player. When he is ready, I want him to be a CALGARY FLAME. Not a Ranger or a Shark or a Red Wing.

Give him the time he needs, whether it be 2014 or 2016.


Also, Kevin Hayes in a Flames jersey in 7 days.

If Sven doesn't perform this year it probably makes no sense to deal him because we won't be getting much back. Definitely better off holding on to him and hoping he can put it together.

[Zevo]

And Kevin Hayes?

[RyZ]

Originally Posted by Hackey

If Sven doesn't perform this year it probably makes no sense to deal him because we won't be getting much back. Definitely better off holding on to him and hoping he can put it together.

Thats the problem. His numbers indicate that he has already put it together and performs just fine in NHL competition, but isnt being given a chance to play. Hes an NHL level player. Play him or deal him.

[Finger Cookin]

Originally Posted by Nehkara

No no. It's a Kevin Baertschi thread.

I hear we have an inside track on signing him because of his college connection with Jean Goodrow, plus his brother Sven is already in the org.