The Alison Redford transgressions thread. Update- Redford quits.

[GP_Matt]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

The funny thing is that Stelmach always flew with his wife at his side and no one really blinked an eye. If there were false passengers being added to flights under Redford's direction, that does border on criminal. I don't have any inside information on the workings of the Premier's office and I do think that there is definitely a waste of resources, but this may be the smallest scale of a scandal to bring down a politician in a long time, especially with the vigor of hatred that is being spewn in this thread.

I don't think anyone is complaining that she brought her daughter along on a business trip. The complaint is with nannies and friends and the seemingly personal nature of the trips.

That sort of thing is a drop in the bucket and largely irrelevant as far as finances go, but it sends a clear message throughout the government that these sort of perks are earned as part of the sacrifice of public office. If Redford can charter a jet to make sure she is back in time for a ceremonial event then why can't the deputy premier, or anyone else in government who is important. She also chartered a jet to avoid a layover in Winnipeg. When the people who work for her see those actions they think the same way.
"I know the flight is $800 more, but I get to the meeting an hour faster and my time is valuable" Multiply this by the thousands of employees in the government who make spending decisions on a daily/weekly basis and it becomes a huge issue.

I don't know about you, but I get my travel and expense habits from my boss who I am sure mimics his boss.

[OldDutch]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

The funny thing is that Stelmach always flew with his wife at his side and no one really blinked an eye. If there were false passengers being added to flights under Redford's direction, that does border on criminal. I don't have any inside information on the workings of the Premier's office and I do think that there is definitely a waste of resources, but this may be the smallest scale of a scandal to bring down a politician in a long time, especially with the vigor of hatred that is being spewn in this thread.

As quite a few journalists have pointed out, it was her style that caused her all the grief, not necessarily all her actions. I bet the revered King Ralph had crossed the line at some point too, but you'll never find out since the party is great at hiding/mitigating these kind of things when they want to. I mean they had a secret fund for how many decades before it was shut down?

At any rate, it is clear that she took her shtick a bit too seriously, and too far. She played the junk yard dog to everyone, made few friends, and if you do that well you better make sure your laundry is clean. The lack of political cover from her party because they disliked her did her in, it prevented the Mandela trip from being nipped and the dominoes fell from there.

Great lesson/case study in politics if you ask me.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by GP_Matt

That sort of thing is a drop in the bucket and largely irrelevant as far as finances go, but it sends a clear message throughout the government that these sort of perks are earned as part of the sacrifice of public office. If Redford can charter a jet to make sure she is back in time for a ceremonial event then why can't the deputy premier, or anyone else in government who is important. She also chartered a jet to avoid a layover in Winnipeg. When the people who work for her see those actions they think the same way.
"I know the flight is $800 more, but I get to the meeting an hour faster and my time is valuable" Multiply this by the thousands of employees in the government who make spending decisions on a daily/weekly basis and it becomes a huge issue.

I don't know about you, but I get my travel and expense habits from my boss who I am sure mimics his boss.

Anyone else remember that time when Peter MacKay called in a military helicopter to pick him up from a fishing trip in Newfoundland and then took a government Challenger jet to a lobster festival in Nova Scotia? I don't recall any Conservative supporters here calling on him to resign or even suggesting he should be compelled to pay back the estimated $150,000 his personal travel cost the taxpayers. I'm sure there must be a totally valid reason why MacKay's wasteful misuse of government transport was a-ok but Redford's wasteful misuse of government transport was so heinous that it forced her resignation, though.

[transplant99]

I just heard another "indiscretion" of hers today on the radio...seems that when her $4000.00 Alberta Law Society dues were up, she thought it best to consider that an "expense" and allowed the taxpayers of Alberta to pick up the tab....on top of which she was late in doing so, which then added a 100.00 fee....also expensed that to all of us.

It is not a great amount of money, but it is an indication of what she was doing across the board and why tomorrow's report, I believe, will be scathing and complete in its bulldozing of the PC's. The fallout will be extensive IMO.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Anyone else remember that time when Peter MacKay called in a military helicopter to pick him up from a fishing trip in Newfoundland and then took a government Challenger jet to a lobster festival in Nova Scotia? I don't recall any Conservative supporters here calling on him to resign or even suggesting he should be compelled to pay back the estimated $150,000 his personal travel cost the taxpayers. I'm sure there must be a totally valid reason why MacKay's wasteful misuse of government transport was a-ok but Redford's wasteful misuse of government transport was so heinous that it forced her resignation, though.

Really?

The "he started it" excuse?


Mind you, I guess that's about all that's left for reasoning with this woman.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Really?

The "he started it" excuse?


Mind you, I guess that's about all that's left for reasoning with this woman.

I'm not excusing anything. In my view, the actions of both MacKay and Redford are inexcusable.

Also, don't mistake me for a PC supporter. I've never once voted for any of their candidates in my life.

[darklord700]

Originally Posted by OldDutch

At any rate, it is clear that she took her shtick a bit too seriously, and too far. She played the junk yard dog to everyone, made few friends, and if you do that well you better make sure your laundry is clean. The lack of political cover from her party because they disliked her did her in, it prevented the Mandela trip from being nipped and the dominoes fell from there.

She knew she had few friends in the party and she grossly misjudged her power as premier and leader of the party. She thought she was in the clear after winning the 2012 election so she started to live like Queen Alison. Her staff was hired from Ontario and she isolated herself in the ivory tower making no attempt to make friends in the party.

I still can't believe a $45K trip did her in. If it was the late King Ralph, I doubt he would even have to pay back a cent of the $45K let alone being forced out.

And now we are calling the cops on Alison, that's just incredible.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by darklord700

She knew she had few friends in the party and she grossly misjudged her power as premier and leader of the party. She thought she was in the clear after winning the 2012 election so she started to live like Queen Alison. Her staff was hired from Ontario and she isolated herself in the ivory tower making no attempt to make friends in the party.

I still can't believe a $45K trip did her in. If it was the late King Ralph, I doubt he would even have to pay back a cent of the $45K let alone being forced out.

And now we are calling the cops on Alison, that's just incredible.

That just opened the door for others to have a look at what was behind it. I think we see this go much much deeper before all is said and done...and party wide, not just the power brokers. This thing has seemingly taken on a life of its own and there is no stopping it now. At least thats what it feeks like to me with todays resignation and the timing of it all. Maybe i am completely misreading it....but this feels like a turning point in Albertas political history and on the other side awaits a whole new landscape.

[Canehdianman]

Originally Posted by transplant99

I just heard another "indiscretion" of hers today on the radio...seems that when her $4000.00 Alberta Law Society dues were up, she thought it best to consider that an "expense" and allowed the taxpayers of Alberta to pick up the tab....on top of which she was late in doing so, which then added a 100.00 fee....also expensed that to all of us.

It is not a great amount of money, but it is an indication of what she was doing across the board and why tomorrow's report, I believe, will be scathing and complete in its bulldozing of the PC's. The fallout will be extensive IMO.

To be fair, I've never paid my own law society dues. It's always been picked up by my employer.

Granted, I need to be an accredited lawyer in order to perform my job, but still...

[GP_Matt]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Anyone else remember that time when Peter MacKay called in a military helicopter to pick him up from a fishing trip in Newfoundland and then took a government Challenger jet to a lobster festival in Nova Scotia? I don't recall any Conservative supporters here calling on him to resign or even suggesting he should be compelled to pay back the estimated $150,000 his personal travel cost the taxpayers. I'm sure there must be a totally valid reason why MacKay's wasteful misuse of government transport was a-ok but Redford's wasteful misuse of government transport was so heinous that it forced her resignation, though.

I wasn't outraged because I don't follow federal politics that closely. As an Albertan, federal politics seem preordained. For the foreseeable future my riding will turn out en masse to vote 75% in favour of the Conservatives and the leader will be selected from the east.

My loose take on the Federal Conservatives though is that I have supported them in the past but it is time for a new party to run for a few years. Too much time with the same party in power seems to lead to wasteful spending as shown above.

[GP_Matt]

Originally Posted by Canehdianman

To be fair, I've never paid my own law society dues. It's always been picked up by my employer.

Granted, I need to be an accredited lawyer in order to perform my job, but still...

My position doesn't require a P.Eng but I still expense my employer the dues every year.
I don't really have an issue with paying her law dues and would imagine that there are quite a few MLAs who expense theirs as well.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by GP_Matt

I wasn't outraged because I don't follow federal politics that closely. As an Albertan, federal politics seem preordained. For the foreseeable future my riding will turn out en masse to vote 75% in favour of the Conservatives and the leader will be selected from the east.

My loose take on the Federal Conservatives though is that I have supported them in the past but it is time for a new party to run for a few years. Too much time with the same party in power seems to lead to wasteful spending as shown above.

Seems like an odd distinction, not saying you are wrong, but if anything in Canadian politics is preordained, it's the pc's winning Alberta provincial elections.

It seems like in the grand scheme of things this shouldn't bother you for the same reason.

Again, I am not trying to say you are wrong, I am confused.

[GP_Matt]

I honestly believe that the PC party can be defeated in Alberta and was active with the Wildrose in the last election to try to make that a reality. It was not a complete success, but still successful in my mind. Two of the ridings that I was involved in came within 200 votes of winning seats as did several other ridings in Alberta.

[HockeyIlliterate]

Originally Posted by Canehdianman

To be fair, I've never paid my own law society dues. It's always been picked up by my employer.

Granted, I need to be an accredited lawyer in order to perform my job, but still...

I'm sure many would say the same, which leads me to wonder if the "acceptability" of a particular expense by a politician depends on whether a common person expenses the same expense themselves.

Expensing bar dues? Oh, sure, no issue, I do that too.

Expensing a monthly cell phone? No issue, who doesn't?

Expensing $200 meals? Yeah, that's fine....I guess, so long as it doesn't happen too often.

Expensing a $45k trip to some random event? Errrr, I can't, so that sure seems wrong...

Etc....

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Canehdianman

To be fair, I've never paid my own law society dues. It's always been picked up by my employer.

Granted, I need to be an accredited lawyer in order to perform my job, but still...

Fair enough, but I don't think that was a condition of her employment.

It would be equivalent to you trying to expense your dues while working for Burger King.

[Kjesse]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Fair enough, but I don't think that was a condition of her employment.

It would be equivalent to you trying to expense your dues while working for Burger King.

There's such an oversupply of lawyers on this board I wouldn't be surprised if some here do...

I wonder whether Jonathan Denis expenses his? Solicitor General, Attorney General, not a job requirement but it sure helps. As Premier, there is a connection between her duties making laws and being a lawyer. Being a member of the law society also imports certain ethical duties on her... would be interesting to see if she claims on the one hand, the expense saying its part of her job, but were she reported to the law society for ethical issues, I'm sure she'd claim the law society has no jurisdiction because as Premier her duties are not that of a lawyer. Maybe someone should try it and see what happens...

Its kind of a grey area to me. If Redford hadn't been abusing the public purse these last few years this wouldn't be an issue.

[Makarov]

Chiming in as another lawyer (and a [former I suppose] Redford fan): I think that expensing law society fees for a Premier is a total non-issue. I don't think that it is inappropriate at all (not even a gray area).

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by Makarov

Chiming in as another lawyer (and a [former I suppose] Redford fan): I think that expensing law society fees for a Premier is a total non-issue. I don't think that it is inappropriate at all (not even a gray area).

Coming from someone who absolutely hates Redford (I held my nose and voted Mar in the PC leadership race in 2011 for the express purpose of trying to prevent Redford from winning) I fully agree with your statement. It's customary in most forms of professional employment for the employer to pay entirely for fees related to maintaining professional designations and status in professional societies. From the employers perspective they actually want you to hold professional designations, because it means you're likely to be better educated and continually strive to keep your knowledge current.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

Coming from someone who absolutely hates Redford (I held my nose and voted Mar in the PC leadership race in 2011 for the express purpose of trying to prevent Redford from winning) I fully agree with your statement. It's customary in most forms of professional employment for the employer to pay entirely for fees related to maintaining professional designations and status in professional societies. From the employers perspective they actually want you to hold professional designations, because it means you're likely to be better educated and continually strive to keep your knowledge current.

Worth noting that I can't defend any of the other allegations of spending misconduct by Redford (accepting them as true.) Such a shame that such a talented person (I do believe that she is truly an intelligent and talented person who could have contributed a great deal to Alberta) was ruined not by her ideas but by her desire for short cuts and fringe benefits.

Redford, like humans in general (and all Greek heroes), was tragically flawed.

[Rerun]

I'm a plumber... and am thinking of running in the next election.
Would it be okay if I expensed my $400/month Plumbers Union dues after I get elected?