There are lots if examples if college players being rushed. Moving from 40 to 82+ games, moving to a different style of hockey, transitioning from a student life to a pro life, the travel, the grind, etc. It's a tough transition.
There is no rush. Anyone saying he should be on the team in July before main camp has even started is making the decision to early. Plain and simple.
We don't need any "upset special" garbage this time around.
I'm not saying he "should be" on the team, I'm saying I think he'll play his way onto the team.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by CroFlames
Before you call me a pessimist or a downer, the Flames made me this way. Blame them.
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to codynw For This Useful Post:
Maybe it's just me, but his dominating NCAA tenure and his play at the WC gives Johnny a strong case of making it in the NHL over Sam B.
I would put him in over Bennett as well at this point in time. He is more ready, he can be sent down if it doesn't work, and a year is coming off the ELC regardless of where he plays.
But barring a fantastic camp and preseason that takes the decision away I wouldn't have either player start with the Flames. We have lots of prospects to slot in, we aren't going to win, there is zero incentive to rush these guys. So don't.
I would put him in over Bennett as well at this point in time. He is more ready, he can be sent down if it doesn't work, and a year is coming off the ELC regardless of where he plays.
But barring a fantastic camp and preseason that takes the decision away I wouldn't have either player start with the Flames. We have lots of prospects to slot in, we aren't going to win, there is zero incentive to rush these guys. So don't.
Just like other prospects were given time to play in the NHL when other Flames players were injured, we also got the luxury of seeing Johnny and Bill play during the last game of the season. And imo, he was the best player on the ice. Every shift that he took out there, he tried to make something happen. I know I shouldn't just slot him in our lineup right away (probably would wait until we see what happens in the tourney and preseason), but Johnny looks like the most NHL ready prospect.
I'm not saying he "should be" on the team, I'm saying I think he'll play his way onto the team.
Fair enough. But the hype around this guy is unreal. Baertschi put up a 2.0 ppg pace in the WHL and he was the first to do that in over 10 years. In his first 50ish games he has put up a 0.5 ppg pace in the NHL (better than Monahan). Yet he is the read headed step child of our top prospects on every second trade proposal. Have of Burke bad mouthing Baertschi was to reduce the hype around this kid.
Fans need to be patient with prospects same as coaching and management. If the guy puts up 50 points in the AHL next season that is a win. If the guy struggles in his first season in the AHL he isn't a write off. If he makes the NHL at some point and plays well than great. But right now fans are building a shrine that the kid may not be able to live up to.
The Following User Says Thank You to kehatch For This Useful Post:
He hasn't proven anything yet. He hasn't earned anything yet. Not where it matters. And who is he proving wrong. I haven't seen anyone say he won't be a great NHL player. People are saying be patient and develop him correctly.
Mackinnon hadn't proven anything at this time last year. He was scoring only 76 pts in 44 games playing in a wide open scoring league where the oldest player was 20 and there were a lot of 16 year old getting ice time....
Jonathan Toews had not proven anything at all after he finished his second year in the NCAA 46 pts in 34 games... the next year 54 pts in 64 games in the NHL.
At least Toews like Gaudreau dominated at the WJC leading his team to gold where Mackinnon was a passenger on a losing team.
Just like other prospects were given time to play in the NHL when other Flames players were injured, we also got the luxury of seeing Johnny and Bill play during the last game of the season. And imo, he was the best player on the ice. Every shift that he took out there, he tried to make something happen. I know I shouldn't just slot him in our lineup right away (probably would wait until we see what happens in the tourney and preseason), but Johnny looks like the most NHL ready prospect.
I think you are guilty of over watching Gaudreau that game (understandably). There were flashes of his skill set no doubt, and he was in the right place to score a goal, but he struggled for most of the game.
It was also a meaningless game. We saw Baertschi score 3 goals in 4 games in similar circumstances. He also finished off the next season on point terror when nothing was on the line.
Meanwhile Granlund, Reinhart, and a few others are arguably much closer to NHL ready and the coaches need to see them in the NHL. The roster can only tolerate so many rookies. Gaudreau is going to have to be much better than those guys to make the team in his first NHL main camp.
He might do it. But it's not a bad thing if he doesn't.
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to kehatch For This Useful Post:
I wouldn't say he struggled at all? He had a few brilliant steals, played keep away behind the net and was able to play his same, sneaky game where he comes from behind the defender almost under his arms, and his size wasn't an issue at all. Plus a goal.
He got hit hard once and bounced right back up. He was able to look just as good as he has in every other level of play.
You know who struggled that game? The rest of the team.
Last edited by polak; 08-01-2014 at 11:36 AM.
The Following User Says Thank You to polak For This Useful Post:
Realistically, I think it'll be less exciting, with Grandlund and Knight as the two forwards.
Wotherspoon definitely showed he deserves a chance to show he can consistently play at the level he finished off last season.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by snipetype
k im just not going to respond to your #### anymore because i have better things to do like #### my model girlfriend rather then try to convince people like you of commonly held hockey knowledge.
Here are the players I think could graduate next season in the order of likelihood. (Note: by graduate I mean make the NHL team full time. I think we will see many get a temporary call up for experience).
Granlund: Looked the most ready of any of our forward call-ups last season and had a heck of a season in Abby.
Baertschi: This will be the last season on his entry level contract. He has shown he can play at the NHL level. The Flames have given him a lower number indicating they see him as an NHL player. Its time to put up and he should get the opportunity to do so.
Cundari: The Flames have a fair bit of depth at D and Cundari has enough experience to fit the role of a 7D better than our younger D prospects. The Flames also bumped him around a fair bit last season and signed him to a one year prove it deal. They will want to see what they have in him.
Reinhart: Reinhart was the scoring leader in Abby last season and looked fine in his NHL call-ups. Unlike Granlund and Baertschi Reinhart slots into the bottom 9 easily giving him a bit more versatility in filling a spot.
Wotherspoon: He played 14 games with the Flames last season and looked good. My guess is the Flames want him to get a full year playing big minutes in the AHL rather than be a routine scratch playing the 7D role. But if injury strikes a roster player Wotherspoon will likely be the first call up.
Ortio: Barring an exceptional camp he will start the season in Abby. However, with Ramo a pending UFA, Hiller a veteran, and Ortio's contract turning into a 1-way in the second year it is very possible he gets a mid season call up. If he impresses look for the Flames to trade Hiller or Ramo to make space.
Knight: Another guy on the last year of his ELC. He was good in Abby and fine in his call ups. His ability to play strong defense and slot into the bottom 9 may be his ticket to impress and stick if injury strikes.
Agostino: Similar to Knight he is one of our older prospects with only a season on his ELC. Also like Knight he slots in to the bottom 9 just fine and plays responsible defense. Could stick in a call up.
Wolf: Wolf will be 25 next season and is on a one year try out contract. If he plays well in the AHL he should see some games in the NHL and have a chance to stick. It is possible he even sticks out of camp due to the Flames need for size and grit.
Gaudreau: There has been lots of discussion about Gaudreau making the team so I won't duplicate it all here. My take is that there are lots of guys ahead of him that need to be assessed and are more NHL ready. There isn't any reason for the Flames to risk rushing one of their best prospects. Unless Gaudreau forced their hand with a steller pre-season or AHL debut I think he spends the season transitioning to pro in the AHL. That said, the kid has the talent to force the Flames hand.
Arnold: His two way ability may get him a call up. He also has NHL size already. He could stick on the bottom 9. My bet is he gets a full AHL season though.
Van Brabant: Similar to Knight and Agostino. May stick in a bottom 9 role if he outplays those guys.
Hanowski: Plays a gritty bottom 9 game so he could become a routine 4-liner. Going to be tough to get ahead of the guys above though.
Bennett: Like Gaudreau there isn't any reason to rush this kid. In fact, given his point in development there is less reason. He will almost certainly spend most of the season in the CHL.
Ferland: Would be at the top of the list if not for missing most of last season. He will likely get a full AHL season to get things sorted out.
Sieloff: See Ferland.
Kulak: I don't think his game is NHL ready yet. Probably sees a full season in the AHL.
Poirier: He could surprise me. But I think he sees an AHL season.
Culkin: Same as Kulak
Ramage: Spent most of his season in the ECHL. Needs to work his way back onto the radar. If he does he might get a call up just to see what he has. I doubt he sticks though.
No kidding and he has Sven at #2. I doubt he has a better chance of making the team than Gaudreau.
Indeed.
One has 50 plus NHL games, two years of pro, is on the final year of an ELC, and was just given an NHL number by the team. The other is a really tiny college guy just turning pro where the management has stated they expect him to play in the AHL and have consistently cautioned fans there will be an adjustment period.
I must be off my rockers.
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to kehatch For This Useful Post:
Gaudreau starts with the Flames if he shows he is one of best players in camp, which I don't doubt he will be. Yeah there is always a thought he might get destroyed with a bone crushing hit but he's a greasy player with very very high hockey IQ. I honestly think he'll be our best playmaker after Hudler on the team.
Projecting Gaudreau as NHL ready based off a one game sample is goofy. Rookies often play like their hair is on fire their first few games in the show. It's games 10-20 in the NHL - when the adrenaline wears off, the grind kicks in, and you're expected to play a 200 ft game - where you start to get a more accurate read. Remember when we were all projecting instant stardom for Baertschi after his first few NHL games?
To me, Granlund looks more ready for the pro game. And based on the comments from the coaching staff about his hockey smarts, maturity, and commitment to a two-way game, I'm betting he's more likely to make the jump full-time this fall.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by fotze
If this day gets you riled up, you obviously aren't numb to the disappointment yet to be a real fan.
One has 50 plus NHL games, two years of pro, is on the final year of an ELC, and was just given an NHL number by the team. The other is a really tiny college guy just turning pro where the management has stated they expect him to play in the AHL and have consistently cautioned fans there will be an adjustment period.
I must be off my rockers.
Not off your rockers, Gaudreau may not be ready for the reasons you suggest. But tenth most likely to graduate (not just fill in) - that's off your rocker. There are 3-4 LWs on your list ahead of him that would need to be full time NHLers
I think you are guilty of over watching Gaudreau that game (understandably). There were flashes of his skill set no doubt, and he was in the right place to score a goal, but he struggled for most of the game.
Disagreed. He did nothing but impress that game. He was straight up overpowered once - but it led to an interference call against the Casucks.
The Following User Says Thank You to ComixZone For This Useful Post:
One has 50 plus NHL games, two years of pro, is on the final year of an ELC, and was just given an NHL number by the team. The other is a really tiny college guy just turning pro where the management has stated they expect him to play in the AHL and have consistently cautioned fans there will be an adjustment period.
I must be off my rockers.
Sven can thank Feaster for playing 50+ games in the NHL. Treliving isn't going to hand him a NHL spot like Jay did. Gaudreau has had to prove all the doubters wrong throughout his career, you'll just be one more.
__________________
The Following User Says Thank You to Fire For This Useful Post:
I think you are guilty of over watching Gaudreau that game (understandably). There were flashes of his skill set no doubt, and he was in the right place to score a goal, but he struggled for most of the game.
It was also a meaningless game. We saw Baertschi score 3 goals in 4 games in similar circumstances. He also finished off the next season on point terror when nothing was on the line.
Meanwhile Granlund, Reinhart, and a few others are arguably much closer to NHL ready and the coaches need to see them in the NHL. The roster can only tolerate so many rookies. Gaudreau is going to have to be much better than those guys to make the team in his first NHL main camp.
Gaudreau had a great game I though. He created chances everytime he touched the puck.
Video by AC, he de very well
Also I don't really give **** if the game doesn't mean anything. None of the games mattered to much for us last year and the final game of the year against a rival means more than most of our games. And if it's your first pro games it's means a lot.
Gaudreau after all the hype I think would go in with the advantage. When was the last time a GM had to say keep the hype down.
Sven can thank Feaster for playing 50+ games in the NHL. Treliving isn't going to hand him a NHL spot like Jay did. Gaudreau has had to prove all the doubters wrong throughout his career, you'll just be one more.
Love the unintentional irony of this post. And suggesting patience in development is not doubting the player.
