Once again Israel shows it doesn't screw around

[Manhattanboy]

It now looks like the only alternative for Israel is the total defeat of Hamas. This may mean re-occupation of Gaza for a very long time.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

It now looks like the only alternative for Israel is the total defeat of Hamas. This may mean re-occupation of Gaza for a very long time.

And it will accomplish absolutely nothing except the creation of something worse

[Manhattanboy]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

And it will accomplish absolutely nothing except the creation of something worse

I do not believe that. When I say Hamas is defeated I mean all of the terrorist cells within Gaza. However long it takes. Hopefully then a moderate unified government can sit down for serious peace talks with Israel. Maybe this will be the war that finally leads to a viable peaceful two state solution.

[Flash Walken]

So, Israel has a blockade by air, sea and land, issues warnings (aka, threats) to evacuate an area, and then bomb refugee areas, hospitals and UN humanitarian sites, and it is the fault of Hamas that civilians are dying.

What kind of reality are you people living in here? There is literally no escape, and the areas that are deemed safe by the Israeli's are destroyed hours later, including hospitals, schools, and united nations compounds.

These civilians can't just pick up and go to Canmore to wait this thing out. They are being bombed and terrorized in the very locations that they are told are safe.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

I do not believe that. When I say Hamas is defeated I mean all of the terrorist cells within Gaza. However long it takes. Hopefully then a moderate unified government can sit down for serious peace talks with Israel. Maybe this will be the war that finally leads to a viable peaceful two state solution.

Do you often pour gasoline on the flames to extinguish a fire?

The last time killing all your enemies and their families to prevent reprisal worked was some time during the Mongol empire.

Israel must have the least effective military on the planet. They've been occupying this area for decades and are still no closer to wiping out their aggressive opposition.

Incompetence or unattainable situation?

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

I do not believe that. When I say Hamas is defeated I mean all of the terrorist cells within Gaza. However long it takes. Hopefully then a moderate unified government can sit down for serious peace talks with Israel. Maybe this will be the war that finally leads to a viable peaceful two state solution.

Defeating terrorism.... Right. Because that worked so well for America in Afghanistan and Iraq.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

I do not believe that. When I say Hamas is defeated I mean all of the terrorist cells within Gaza. However long it takes. Hopefully then a moderate unified government can sit down for serious peace talks with Israel. Maybe this will be the war that finally leads to a viable peaceful two state solution.

When in world history has that ever worked? You can't defeat terrorists with more violence; that just begets even more terrorism. Think of all the young Palestinian kids who just saw their homes destroyed and/or had family members killed by the IDF over the past few weeks -- how many of them will now become future terrorists (or self-described resistance fighters from their POV) because of this?

[Manhattanboy]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

So, Israel has a blockade by air, sea and land, issues warnings (aka, threats) to evacuate an area, and then bomb refugee areas, hospitals and UN humanitarian sites, and it is the fault of Hamas that civilians are dying.

What kind of reality are you people living in here? There is literally no escape, and the areas that are deemed safe by the Israeli's are destroyed hours later, including hospitals, schools, and united nations compounds.

These civilians can't just pick up and go to Canmore to wait this thing out. They are being bombed and terrorized in the very locations that they are told are safe.

There is some question as to whether the damage was caused by Hamas missiles.

Yes I blame Hamas for all of this. Stop missile attacks against Israeli citizens, unconditionally surrender and disarm. Israel is in Gaza as a last resort. Good thing too, otherwise the terrorist tunnels would not have been discovered.

[Chill Cosby]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

There is some question as to whether the damage was caused by Hamas missiles.

Yes I blame Hamas for all of this. Stop missile attacks against Israeli citizens, unconditionally surrender and disarm. Israel is in Gaza as a last resort. Good thing too, otherwise the terrorist tunnels would not have been discovered.

The tunnels were discovered years before Israel invaded Gaza. Years.

If Hamas surrenders, what then becomes of he Palestinian people?

[Manhattanboy]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Do you often pour gasoline on the flames to extinguish a fire?

The last time killing all your enemies and their families to prevent reprisal worked was some time during the Mongol empire.

Israel must have the least effective military on the planet. They've been occupying this area for decades and are still no closer to wiping out their aggressive opposition.

Incompetence or unattainable situation?

They were not "occupying the area". The IDF could turn Gaza into a parking lot in an afternoon. It is because of their concern for civilian casualties that they have been ineffective in defeating Hamas.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

They were not "occupying the area". The IDF could turn Gaza into a parking lot in an afternoon. It is because of their concern for civilian casualties that they have been ineffective in defeating Hamas.

edit: nm, i don't know what i was thinking.

[Manhattanboy]

Originally Posted by Chill Cosby

The tunnels were discovered years before Israel invaded Gaza. Years.

If Hamas surrenders, what then becomes of he Palestinian people?

No the former head of Mossad, who was initially against ground troops, admitted that but for the incursion, the tunnels would have remained undiscovered.

I feel so badly for the Palestinian people. They needed a Sadat, a King Hussein, a statesman. Instead they were blessed with Arafat. Now this.

[Manhattanboy]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

edit: nm, i don't know what i was thinking.

Yes I actually do.

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

They were not "occupying the area". The IDF could turn Gaza into a parking lot in an afternoon. It is because of their concern for civilian casualties that they have been ineffective in defeating Hamas.

Their restrictions, their encroachments, and their borders say that yes, they are occupying the area.

And I don't see a lot of concern for civilian casualties lately.

[Chill Cosby]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

I feel so badly for the Palestinian people. They needed a Sadat, a King Hussein, a statesman. Instead they were blessed with Arafat. Now this.

Neat, but that doesn't answer the question. What's your view of their outcome after Hamas surrenders and disarms?

[Manhattanboy]

Originally Posted by Chill Cosby

Neat, but that doesn't answer the question. What's your view of their outcome after Hamas surrenders and disarms?

Fatah would be able to regain control of the area.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

It is because of their concern for civilian casualties that they have been ineffective in defeating Hamas.

"Our soldiers are the only innocents in Gaza. Under no circumstances should they be killed because of false morality that prefers to protect enemy civilians. One hair on the head of an Israeli soldier is more precious than the entire Gazan populace, which elected the Hamas and supports and encourages anyone who murders Israelis."

-Moshe Feiglin, deputy speaker of the Knesset, demonstrating the Israeli government's concern for civilian life in Gaza
July 24, 2014
Source: http://www.jewishisrael.org/moshe-fe...nnocents-gaza/

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Zevo

Actually, this is what terrorism looks like.

Violence is ugly, but this post goes back 11 years.

In the last 3 weeks, more than 1300 palestinians have been killed.

More than the amount of Israeli's killed in the last 15 years.

In 3 weeks.

You won't find defenders of Hamas.

You, however, wilfully defend Israeli violence in a sick "lowest common denominator" game, abdicating any responsibility for Israeli violence in favour of placing the blame on Palestinians exclusively, or in an effort to appear "balanced", pay lip service to legitimate Palestinian grievances, as if they are inconsequential.

[Chill Cosby]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

Fatah would be able to regain control of the area.

The same Fatah that is currently in a unity government with Hamas, and has also been accused of firing rockets by the Israeli media?

[redforever]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

No the former head of Mossad, who was initially against ground troops, admitted that but for the incursion, the tunnels would have remained undiscovered.

I feel so badly for the Palestinian people. They needed a Sadat, a King Hussein, a statesman. Instead they were blessed with Arafat. Now this.

They have known about the tunnels for years.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/29/wo...fear.html?_r=0

In recent years however, the new tunnels have been harder to detect because Hamas builds them deeper. They are also more adept at removing the excavated material without being conspicuous about it.