Jay Feaster update (Stan Fischler interview)

[indes]

This thread is like a fight with my wife, I could've sworn we hashed this out sometime before

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Closer than, say, not giving O'Reilly an offersheet, which 29 other teams managed.

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

lol, no one else knew.

Well, 29 other GMs knew enough not to tender an offersheet, so, there's that part of it.

You keep saying this but it was reported at the time that several teams had made O'Reilly an offer, he just chose to accept the Flames offer.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Jacks

You keep saying this but it was reported at the time that several teams had made O'Reilly an offer, he just chose to accept the Flames offer.

The only person I recall saying that was Feaster or someone in the flames organization. Just like other teams were going to draft Jankowski in the first round if they didn't. He tried to justify his actions by making claims like this

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

The only person I recall saying that was Feaster or someone in the flames organization. Just like other teams were going to draft Jankowski in the first round if they didn't. He tried to justify his actions by making claims like this

Nope. It was widely discussed in the media.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Nope. It was widely discussed in the media.

Only as a result of Flames organization members saying it. There was no independent source that stated this.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by nik-

Only as a result of Flames organization members saying it. There was no independent source that stated this.

you sound pretty definitive on that

didn't his agent state that there were multiple teams?

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Nope. It was widely discussed in the media.

Was a formal offer ever presented?

IIRC a few times (2-3) had talks, but in the end did not make a formal offer. Calgary was the only one that made a formal offer. How do you know the teams that did consider it, didn't end up backing off because they realized ROR may have to go on waivers?

Also, who were these teams? How do you know it wasn't another incompetant GM like the Oilers?

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

Was a formal offer ever presented?

IIRC a few times (2-3) had talks, but in the end did not make a formal offer. Calgary was the only one that made a formal offer. How do you know the teams that did consider it, didn't end up backing off because they realized ROR may have to go on waivers?

We don't - it's all speculative.

Which is why it is overboard for posters to definitively attack the situation

[Beatle17]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

Yeah I don't think he can justify all this cap-jail stuff when he goes out to try and get Brad Richards / Ryan Smyth with that money, and ended up using it on Alex Tanguay when it all failed. We might have been in "cap jail" but he didn't end up doing much better using that money on Alex Tanguay / David Jones, and Denis Wideman.

As for prospects...... again meh, if he's talking about those 2nd round picks, I thought the 2nd rounders were well used.

I personally don't think he should be very proud of what he did at all.....

Everyone keeps harping on the same crap. Lets try to look at them objectively.

- He didn't try to get Ryan Smyth, it is all rumours based on Smyth saying he wanted to come back to Alberta. So the press jumps on that Calgary and Edmonton are looking at Smyth which was false and has no basis in facts.

- Trying to sign Brad Richards. A move to finally get someone to play with Iggy and keep him happy. In hindsight it is great it didn't work out but if had shown up and scored 70 points with Iggy the Flames may have snuck into the playoffs and everyone would be bitching about needing a rebuild.

- Getting junk assets for Iginla (in others opinions) could be true, but I wonder if Pittsburgh (Iginla's only choice to move to, which everyone conveniently forgets) would rather have Agostino/Hanowski/Poirier instead of 2 months of Iggy? Every year towards the end of Iggy's time in Calgary he would give the standard answer about wanting to win here. Should they have traded him 2 years earlier, sure, but they couldn't as he held the hammer. As long as the team kept bringing in "his" guys he was happy. When the Flames decided to move on from trying to qualify for the playoffs and told him they were going to rebuild he then relented and agreed to move, TO ONE TEAM ONLY.

_ I didn't like the Bouw trade but that's because I liked the player and didn't want to see him go?

- Regehr had to go and has shown since he was moved that he is now a 6-7 defenceman on both Buffalo and LA. His injuries over time slowed him down too much and he wouldn't have helped the Flames as proven by his previous 2 years in Calgary before he left. We all loved Regehr for years but it was time. The 2 players they got back were serviceable during the start of the rebuild stage.

- Kotalik and a 2nd for a cap dump. Who cares, it was worth it to stop the team from paying him $3M to play in the minors and not have to use a buyout on him.

- ROR "fiasco". As has been stated it was a legal interpretation about the wording of the clause. The league has never outright said that ROR would have to clear waivers because they didn't have to comment on it as the Avs matched. But they did adjust the wording in the final document so the lawyer in Feaster would probably have won if they had to appeal any ruling.

- Kipper retiring. Everyone knew he wasn't playing the last year of his contract. It was a bogus year to drive down the AAV.

- Tanguay and Sarich. Again, if healthy David Jones plays more of the style the Flames want to change to. He is bigger, faster and hits with the ability to score goals. Tanguay - doesn't try if he isn't allowed to play with who he wants. Sarich was a good soldier but remember he was a healthy scratch for years in Calgary. The Flames thought they were getting a rougher guy in SOB but it didn't turn out that way. They sent him to the minors and bought him out so not a big deal, it's not my money.

In all of these instances not one effected the Flames as much as 11 NTC/NMC and being at the cap did. By the Flames trying to squeek into the playoffs to keep Iggy happy they screwed themselves out of the chance to draft a highly rated guy for years and had no prospect base to speak of. Once the ownership and management decided to rebuild a new core of players Feaster did a decent job of getting rid of dollars, which directly meant he had to trade all the older high priced players. Did he get back the best returns, probably not, but he created room for younger players and cap space so they can pursue assets when they begin to develop. I have no problem with the direction they chose to move.

[edslunch]

The real question is why does anyone care anymore? I think most here would say, at least provisionally, that the Flames are better off with current management. Not a lot of point looking backwards IMO. Then again it is summer....

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

you sound pretty definitive on that

didn't his agent state that there were multiple teams?

I'm pretty definitive but not 100%. I remember when this first started circulating and then second time it did really looking to try and find a source that wasn't our team stating he was about to get picked. I didn't find anything. It's become an echo chamber statement.

Originally Posted by edslunch

The real question is why does anyone care anymore? I think most here would say, at least provisionally, that the Flames are better off with current management. Not a lot of point looking backwards IMO. Then again it is summer....

The thread is about the guy ... why wouldn't it be discussed?

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by Beatle17

Everyone keeps harping on the same crap. Lets try to look at them objectively.

...

In all of these instances not one effected the Flames as much as 11 NTC/NMC and being at the cap did. By the Flames trying to squeek into the playoffs to keep Iggy happy they screwed themselves out of the chance to draft a highly rated guy for years and had no prospect base to speak of. Once the ownership and management decided to rebuild a new core of players Feaster did a decent job of getting rid of dollars, which directly meant he had to trade all the older high priced players. Did he get back the best returns, probably not, but he created room for younger players and cap space so they can pursue assets when they begin to develop. I have no problem with the direction they chose to move.

Well this clearly isn't just "objectively" but moreso "subjectively.... all of which, if it wasn't otherwise covered in this thread was covered before, to which I obviously disagree with your opinion and as Split pages ago.....agree to disagree.

To the 2nd bolded portion.... I supposed that is what Feaster is going to pride himself it, but as mentioned earlier in this thread, Feaster's plan/direction went with whatever the wind is blowing. You can't pride yourself on the forsight to rebuild when for the majority of your tenure, you said you are not going to rebuild. Its the equivicating and priding himself on things he did not do that leaves him open to critisism. If he had said "yeah, I f'ed up this and this, I would have done things differently" I would have given him more slack... you can be arrogant when you are good, but when you are crappy and arrogant, then you get critisized. You can't spew off all this crap about cap jail then go after Brad Richards and Ryan Smyth (yes it was confirmed, but Bob MacKenzie on TSN). You can't critisize previous management for dealing picks to win now, then trade off a draft pick to dump salary that only had 1 year left commitment. Its stuff like this article that makes him look like a sleezy used car salesman, just say whatever to pitch the sale...

[Chill Cosby]

In my mind, Feaster accomplished one good thing:

He hired Bob Hartley

Feaster was hands-off at the draft, so it's hard to defend him using that unless you're saying "Well, he let the scouts do their job."

He made a few mistakes, but every GM makes mistakes, his were just a little more pronounced because they were A) done in a hockey market and B) done at a time when the franchise needed every move to be a win. This includes poor trades and bad contracts. He got rid of some NTC which was a positive, but it's not necessarily an accomplishment to just let bad contracts expire and not put an NTC into every new one you replace it with. The NTC issue was a huge mistake by Sutter, but if you're defending Feaster by saying "well, he didn't make that same mistake" then that's kind of altogether meaningless. In business, you don't get credit for NOT screwing up. The expectation is that you don't. That's your job.

He, in my estimation, lost every trade he made. A couple were due to extraneous factors that made it more difficult, but I'm unaware of any trade he completed where he got anything more than the absolute bare minimum you would expect in return.

He moved out quality players because of "cap jail" but grossly overpaid (or acquired overpaid) a slew of players that were significantly worse.

Feaster was the very definition of a below-average GM. He wasn't awful. He just didn't do anything to significantly improve the team. After two years of him at the helm, the Flames were worse in almost every respect, minus coaching and drafting, one of which Feaster took admittedly no credit for at the time.

Defend Feaster or trash Feaster, it doesn't matter. He was nothing more or less than a below-average GM. He did some good, he did a little more bad. He didn't save this team in any way that any other GM in the league could have, and he didn't ruin this team in any way that any other GM in the league might have (except for maybe Garth Snow). He's gone. The Flames survived.

That's all I got.

[codynw]

Originally Posted by Chill Cosby

He, in my estimation, lost every trade he made. A couple were due to extraneous factors that made it more difficult, but I'm unaware of any trade he completed where he got anything more than the absolute bare minimum you would expect in return.

Getting rid of Bork was a win no matter what the return was, but getting Cammalleri back, as well as getting Ramo?

That was a really good trade.

[Phanuthier]

I'll give Feaster a bit more credit then that, there are a few other great moves he made:

Erixon for 2 2nd's and Horak
Jiri Hudler signing (Best transaction)

Of the critisism, one that I disagree with his the Jankowski pick. (a) it is far too early to write him off, I believe he is the same age as Monahan, (b) its the scout that made the pick, not him.... this wasn't Feaster's call.

[Split98]

Originally Posted by nik-

Only as a result of Flames organization members saying it. There was no independent source that stated this.

Why would any GM come forward and tell their fan-base that "Whoopsies! That was almost us!"

Of course members of the Flames organization are going to be the source on that, they are the only people being asked the question. Now they're liars too?

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Split98

Why would any GM come forward and tell their fan-base that "Whoopsies! That was almost us!"

Of course members of the Flames organization are going to be the source on that, they are the only people being asked the question. Now they're liars too?

I'm responding to people stating other sources were saying it. They weren't.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

I'll give Feaster a bit more credit then that, there are a few other great moves he made:

Erixon for 2 2nd's and Horak
Jiri Hudler signing (Best transaction)

Of the critisism, one that I disagree with his the Jankowski pick. (a) it is far too early to write him off, I believe he is the same age as Monahan, (b) its the scout that made the pick, not him.... this wasn't Feaster's call.

Can we put this it was the scout not the GM thing to bed? The GM is responsible for everything the team does. If he chooses not to overrule his scouts that's still a choice. He's responsible for the scouts, the broad draft criteria and actually making the pick. I have no problem if he delegates to his staff but the buck still stops with him. History will judge that he is a good or bad drafter regardless how he went about it

[Split98]

Originally Posted by nik-

I'm responding to people stating other sources were saying it. They weren't.

Gotcha. All I remember hearing about it was Feaster saying something along the lines of other GMs calling him to tell him they were making the same mistake.

[Flash Walken]

If Ken King says the O'Reilly offersheet was a mistake, does that add weight to the argument that it was a good idea or a bad one?

Do teams often make sound decisions that weeks later they categorize as mistakes?