Viewership does not equate to quality programming or even truthful reporting. Millions of people watch the Kardashians and Honey Boo Boo. It doesn't make either show worthwhile.
MSNBC is certainly left-leaning, but to compare it to Fox News is excessive. Fox News quite literally just makes stuff up pretty regularly.
Nickleback sells millions of albums, doesn't make them the pinnacle of art either. I get it. Not once did I condone or support Fox news, its trash. But just as I wouldn't expect one side of this debate to accept news or talking points from Fox news or the NRA, surely you can understand why I wouldn't accept news or talking points from MSNBC or Mother Jones.
MSNBC hasn't been the bastion of fair news reporting when it comes to the gun issue in the US, or anything apparently as the link you provided points out as well. The US media is so politically driven, to take anything said by a suit and tie on air at face value is a mistake.
This is why I would prefer to look at FBI crime stats then studies done by left/right leaning orgs.
This is the whole reason why I asked Caged Great for a source on the claim that the Chicago PD is flat out lying about their homicide rates in 2014. Not to be a dick, not to be argumentative for the sake of argument, but to find out if the claim was legitimate as the optics of such a lie would be terrible, and worry some given politicians who use police chiefs/departments and police orgs to push through policy. Thats it, thats all. If you don't like Fox news, great. Neither do I.
Last edited by Shnabdabber; 07-12-2014 at 11:38 PM.
Nickleback sells millions of albums, doesn't make them the pinnacle of art either. I get it. Not once did I condone or support Fox news, its trash. But just as I wouldn't expect one side of this debate to accept news or talking points from Fox news or the NRA, surely you can understand why I wouldn't accept news or talking points from MSNBC or Mother Jones.
MSNBC hasn't been the bastion of fair news reporting when it comes to the gun issue in the US, or anything apparently as the link you provided points out as well. The US media is so politically driven, to take anything said by a suit and tie on air at face value is a mistake.
This is why I would prefer to look at FBI crime stats then studies done by left/right leaning orgs.
This is the whole reason why I asked Caged Great for a source on the claim that the Chicago PD is flat out lying about their homicide rates in 2014. Not to be a dick, not to be argumentative for the sake of argument, but to find out if the claim was legitimate as the optics of such a lie would be terrible, and worry some given politicians who use police chiefs/departments and police orgs to push through policy. Thats it, thats all. If you don't like Fox news, great. Neither do I.
Economist magazine has a good summation of the issues with CPD crime classification.
But just as I wouldn't expect one side of this debate to accept news or talking points from Fox news or the NRA, surely you can understand why I wouldn't accept news or talking points from MSNBC or Mother Jones.
You've developed a false equivalency.
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MSNBC hasn't been the bastion of fair news reporting when it comes to the gun issue in the US, or anything apparently as the link you provided points out as well.
MSNBC does not report news. The channel is focused completely on political discussion, it does not claim to report the news, only talk about it. There is a big difference between the two. MSNBC's slant is also clearly a programming choice by the parent corporation. When you consider the other programming in their stable NBCUniversal is obviously producing content for specific markets and less intent on ideological delivery, which is exactly where NewsCorp and FoxNews land.
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The US media is so politically driven, to take anything said by a suit and tie on air at face value is a mistake.
That is driven mostly by corporations more than anything. You want to understand the media, try understanding the nature of the mother corporation and the politicians they buy with their monetary support. We can thank Citizens United and a conservative Supreme Court for the current media boondoggle.
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This is why I would prefer to look at FBI crime stats then studies done by left/right leaning orgs.
Crime stats are bull####. They are fudged in each municipality, county and state, who feed their data into NCIC. There is so much politics in everything that goes on in the United States it is mind boggling. Police Chiefs, who are contracted for a period of time, then become at will employees, have to show positive improvements in fighting crime, so the numbers are routinely massaged and specific chunks of data precluded from analysis so the numbers look good.
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This is the whole reason why I asked Caged Great for a source on the claim that the Chicago PD is flat out lying about their homicide rates in 2014. Not to be a dick, not to be argumentative for the sake of argument, but to find out if the claim was legitimate as the optics of such a lie would be terrible, and worry some given politicians who use police chiefs/departments and police orgs to push through policy. Thats it, thats all. If you don't like Fox news, great. Neither do I.
The whole system is broken. It is run by corrupt politicians and unscrupulous public servants. This has been caused by the duality which exists in the political system itself. X can't trust Y because they are from different parties. Issues don't matter, only party lines. The only thing that will fix anything in the United States is a third, fourth and fifth parties. There needs to be more choices and to have cooperation and compromise forced down the throats of the system. Without that, America will continue to flounder and become the failed state that some very wise thinkers are predicting.
This ties into my point which you addressed about taking news at face value as the truth. The NRA clearly has a agenda, same as Mother Jones. You can call it a pink unicorn for all I care, same crap, different pile.
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MSNBC does not report news. The channel is focused completely on political discussion, it does not claim to report the news, only talk about it.
I wonder why then even after the FBI clarified mis-reporting after the navel yard shooting, that MSNBC still pushed their version of the truth? That a ar15 was the firearm used and not a shotgun? I mean, Im not gonna argue with you on MSNBC not reporting the news, its more of an ideological entity to push political talking points on Americans. Really no argument here.
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There is a big difference between the two. MSNBC's slant is also clearly a programming choice by the parent corporation. When you consider the other programming in their stable NBCUniversal is obviously producing content for specific markets and less intent on ideological delivery, which is exactly where NewsCorp and FoxNews land.
To even watch 5 minutes of MSNBC and not find them ideological in nature is incredible. Mind you, this may not be so hard to believe given that a certain segment of americans identify with that, just like they would with Fox.
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That is driven mostly by corporations more than anything. You want to understand the media, try understanding the nature of the mother corporation and the politicians they buy with their monetary support. We can thank Citizens United and a conservative Supreme Court for the current media boondoggle.
Agreed 100% 25 years ago there used to be around 30 major mainstream media markets. They have all been consolidated into I believe 5 now.
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Crime stats are bull####. They are fudged in each municipality, county and state, who feed their data into NCIC. There is so much politics in everything that goes on in the United States it is mind boggling. Police Chiefs, who are contracted for a period of time, then become at will employees, have to show positive improvements in fighting crime, so the numbers are routinely massaged and specific chunks of data precluded from analysis so the numbers look good.
I guess if we cannot use stats anymore then we don't have much to go on when it comes to this debate. So then all we have left is ideology to help form policy, which seems extremely fool hardy and short sighted to me.
I'm not disagreeing with you. Stats/numbers can all be manipulated, and if hammered enough, they will generally give you the answer you want anyways. When it comes to this debate I always try to look at FBI crime stats, but I guess we cant use them anymore, so again we are left in a ideological debate with no credible leg to stand on. Very dangerous IMO.
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The whole system is broken. It is run by corrupt politicians and unscrupulous public servants. This has been caused by the duality which exists in the political system itself. X can't trust Y because they are from different parties. Issues don't matter, only party lines. The only thing that will fix anything in the United States is a third, fourth and fifth parties. There needs to be more choices and to have cooperation and compromise forced down the throats of the system. Without that, America will continue to flounder and become the failed state that some very wise thinkers are predicting.
Totally agree, and Ross Perot might have been Americas best shot as he certainly put the scare into the establishment. Wonder how a independant can gain traction when the American voting demographic is being fed only what the establishment wants them to hear through our beloved partisan news sources. When Ron Paul ran, he was rebuffed from public debates, had his time run short, and generally ignored as much as possible by the mainstream media.
Just curious about what your thoughts are on the possibility of states seceding from the Union? The states without a doubt have the power over the federal gov't, far different from what we have here in Canada. At what point do the American people finally have enough and stand up for real change?
Nickleback sells millions of albums, doesn't make them the pinnacle of art either. I get it. Not once did I condone or support Fox news, its trash. But just as I wouldn't expect one side of this debate to accept news or talking points from Fox news or the NRA, surely you can understand why I wouldn't accept news or talking points from MSNBC or Mother Jones.
Fox News is,,,pro religious, anti environment, anti abortion, anti lgbt rights, anti gun regulations, anti ACA, anti Obama, anti immigration, xenophobic, misogynist, pro right wing nut case politicians, pro 1%ers.
MJ is the polar opposite.
I too am polar opposite of Fox News ideologies,
So, what is it about MJ that you find misleading or lies or flat out wrong.
Texas' ban on same-sex marriage allows the state to promote the birth and upbringing of children in "stable, lasting relationships," the state's attorney general argued Tuesday while asking a federal appeals court to reinstate the ban
Attorney General Greg Abbott, the Republican nominee for governor, said the views of ban opponents could be considered "rational." But he argued that Texas voters have the right under the U.S. Constitution's equal protection clause, the same amendment often cited by ban opponents, to define marriage in a way that best supports children
"There are good, well-meaning people on both sides," he wrote to the 5th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, echoing previous sentiments in the case. But he argued that opposite-sex couples are better suited to have and raise children, and thus help reduce "societal costs."
"Because same-sex relationships do not naturally produce children, recognizing same-sex marriage does not further these goals to the same extent that recognizing opposite-sex marriage does," the brief said.
Mark Pharriss, a longtime friend of Abbott's who along with his partner sued the state over the ban, argued that the real harm to children is done when their parents aren't granted "the benefits and protections of a marriage."
"Our constitutional rights are not up for the vote of Texas citizens," he said. "That point has been made unanimously by every district court and now two circuit courts who have looked at this issue."
A federal judge declared Texas' ban unconstitutional in February but allowed it to remain in effect during the appeal process.
You'd think from the AG's logic that Texas was being asked to decide between only same-sex couples or only opposite-sex couple for child-rearing.
Wealthy families are probably more positioned to raise children without adding 'societal costs' than poor families, so perhaps Texas should ban poor-people marriages too.
You'd think from the AG's logic that Texas was being asked to decide between only same-sex couples or only opposite-sex couple for child-rearing.
Wealthy families are probably more positioned to raise children without adding 'societal costs' than poor families, so perhaps Texas should ban poor-people marriages too.
OR! Rich families spend an unecessary and disproportionately larger amount on raising their children than poor people.
Therefore, it's more cost effective to prevent rich people from marrying and have poor people raise 5 children on the same amount rich people would spend on 2 or even 1!
Yep. The conservatives decide to "Sue" and start crying impeachment and the result was they are eliminating the fundraising edge they had and alienating the independents who decide the elections. So now they are trying to turn things around by pointing the fingers back to the Democrats. This mid-term election may turn out to be more interesting than many think in the end. The democrats are now amping up the fact that this congress has only passed 142 laws which is something like 15% of what the famous original "do nothing congress" (coined by Truman) managed to pass.
The GOP is doing a great job inspiring the base but they may not be such a great job at inspiring the people they actually need to vote for them.
lol stepping stone jobs, is she that out of touch. America moves like so many nations jobs offshore to cheaper countries, kills the unions, stagnates the middle class for 4 decades and she has a problem with at bare minimum moving up the minimum wage to reflect the cost of living increase??
This is the American 'Politics' thread and not the American 'Foreign Policy' thread, but, it will be interesting to see if there is room to make this a wedge issue in American politics:
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The U.S. military has systematically covered up or disregarded “abundant and compelling evidence” of war crimes, torture, and unlawful killings in Afghanistan as recently as last year, according to a report by Amnesty International published today in Kabul.
The human rights organization alleges that the U.S. military has routinely failed to properly investigate reports of criminal behavior and, in some instances, tampered with evidence to conceal wrongdoing. On the rare occasions when servicemen are held to account, the report found that the compromised military justice system seldom secured justice for the victims of enforced disappearances, killings, and abuse that included torture.
“President Obama has admitted that ‘we tortured’ people in the past—but this is not the Bush administration, this is torture happening under Obama,” said Joanne Mariner, the author of the report.
While torture and other abuses by the CIA and the military were sanctioned by the Bush administration, Obama entered office vowing to end such practices. There have been a number of prosecutions and punishments of military units that have committed crimes and atrocities in Afghanistan under Obama, but Amnesty says the White House has to do more to ensure his policy changes are respected in the field.
A survivor of one of the most egregious assaults on civilians detailed in the report told The Daily Beast he had been forced to listen to the last gasps and sobs of his dying daughter, who was seven months pregnant, while the Americans threatened to kill anyone who moved. “She was calling out for help, maybe she wanted to share her last words before she left us forever,” said Muhammad Tahir, a civil servant.
Four years after two pregnant women, two criminal justice officials, and a teenage girl were shot dead during a party to mark the birth of a grandson in Khataba Village, Paktia Province, Tahir and his family are still waiting to be interviewed as part of an investigation the U.S. military promised to carry out.
“There is a shocking lack of accountability for the killing of Afghan civilians by U.S. forces, including civilians killed in circumstances that raise concerns about war crimes,” said Mariner. “There is very strong evidence that war crimes were carried out.”
The report, titled “Left in the Dark,” includes detailed investigations of 10 incidents in which at least 140 civilians, including 50 children, were killed in dubious circumstances. In the aftermath of nine of these, eyewitnesses and families report that no one was ever interviewed by the U.S. military.
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Among the most disturbing allegations are claims of forcible disappearance, torture, and extrajudicial killings carried out by a rogue unit in Wardak province from the fall of 2012. “We interviewed a former detainee that had a really horrific story of just raw torture,” Mariner said. “It’s not only the testimony of this former detainee but a lot of bodies were found showing horrendous crimes of torture—people missing body parts and people whose corpses were badly mutilated.”
One of 125 victims and eyewitnesses interviewed by Amnesty in compiling this report was Qandi Agha, 51, an employee at the provincial Ministry of Culture, who says he was captured by U.S. forces who broke into his home and spirited him away to a dark wooden cell. “On the first night,” he said, “the Americans told me they were going to try 14 different types of torture on me. If I survived, they said, they’d let me go.”
...
The U.S. authorities first became aware of allegations against the Special Forces team operating out of Combat Outpost Nerkh in December 2012. The American-led miliary coalition denied the charges of abuse. But by February 2013, the allegations had become so vehement that the Afghan president, Hamid Karzai, ordered Special Forces to leave the province.
“The U.S. knew about complaints, and that obviously raises concerns as to why this wasn’t stopped sooner, because the abuses went on. There were people who were disappeared as late as February” in 2013, said Mariner.
