Jay Feaster update (Stan Fischler interview)

[Jacks]

I think it has been argued a bunch of times that Iginla had the final say on which team he went to regardless of which offer was better.

[Hackey]

Not the point. Point was obviously Feaster didn't communicate properly with Iginla. He will only go to Pittsburgh and you didn't know that? Sloppy. If that was the case there is no need for Shero to know that. I doubt he even did until we all did. Feaster just got fleeced.

[Split98]

Originally Posted by Hackey

Thing is I don't have to tell you that I can only sell to you. IIRC Iginla apparently had 4 teams. Realistically you shouldn't say anything if it's gonna negatively impact your return. Lie if you have to and say he has submitted 6 or 8 teams if your gonna release that kind of information. Also communication was obviously terrible because we had a much better deal from Boston that they thought was done. I admit his hands were tied but he still botched the trade. I also think because of Feasters reputation we were low balled.

It was no secret that Iginla was going to choose which team he was going to, and every team knew it. The negotiations were 'if Iginla chooses us, this is what we will give you as compensation'. Feaster had 2 options: accept what they are willing to give us, or keep Iginla.

The switch Pittsburgh switch was not Feaster's fault. How I understood it was that Feaster had instructions that if Pittsburgh made an offer this was the offer he was to take. The Pittsburgh offer came through after they believed a deal with Boston was done.

Honestly, it's pretty impossible to negotiate given these restrictions. It's Tom all over again where all you can do is maximize your return. If Feaster's reputation was an issue, Pittsburgh would offer him a 4th and force Feaster to accept it or keep Iginla. But they didn't, and we returned 2 prospects who could have an impact on this team.

[Vulcan]

The way I remember it Feaster and King had an oral agreement with Iginla to go to one of the 4 (?) teams. Iginla changed his mind and threw a wrench into the negotiations when he learned that he could go to Pittsburgh. IIRC King went on air after the deal saying they should have gotten the agreement in writing. I'd put some blame on Iginla, Feaster and King for the resulting mess.

[Split98]

Originally Posted by Hackey

Not the point. Point was obviously Feaster didn't communicate properly with Iginla. He will only go to Pittsburgh and you didn't know that? Sloppy. If that was the case there is no need for Shero to know that. I doubt he even did until we all did. Feaster just got fleeced.

Back to the car analogy. You have a car, and there are 4 of us. You legally can only sell to one of us, and we know that but we don't know who. Your wife still wants to go to Greece. You still need the money from the car for the flights to Greece. Her parents anniversary is still next week. You need to sell this car. I'm not negotiating against the other 3 guys, I'm just interested in giving you enough. I'll offer you enough so I don't look like I'm taking advantage of your situation and that you won't just decide to keep the car and risk pissing off your wife.

[Flash Walken]

Best thing Feaster ever did for this franchise was assemble one of the worst rosters the organization had ever seen, and despite his best efforts, drafting Monahan 6th overall.

Probably for that reason alone he's better than Riser.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Brayden Point has an obvious edge in talent over the 2nd rounder we picked this year. I suspect he will have more assists this year than Smith has points.

The object of a draft is not to draft the player who is the best in junior, it is to draft the best NHLer.

Brayden Point is 5'9" 160. Even if - on the highly improbable odds - he turns out as good as Gaudreau, how many tiny playmakers can a team dress?

Suggesting Point is more talented than Smith today and therefore would have been a better draft pick is, frankly, grossly naïve.

[mikeecho]

Originally Posted by Split98

So you're saying that Feaster had 2 options:

1) Tell ownership to shove it
2) Pull off a miracle and make the playoffs

And because he did neither of those things, he was a bad GM.

Agree. At the senior levels of the business world, telling ownership to shove it will rarely work in terms of career longevity, but if one were to do that, the only acceptable action is to do all that behind the scenes and then present to the employees and public with a unified front like everyone is on the same page and we believe in the direction we are going.

I'm pretty sure Feaster didn't tell Edwards to shove it, but him coming out to the world and saying he's not the guy to lead a rebuild is less about what he actually thought and more about towing the company line cause Edwards needs to keep bums in the seats and drive ancillary revenue through parking, food, alcohol, merchandise sales, etc... Typically rebuilds are not good for business, although to this point it has worked well for the Flames.

[Split98]

Originally Posted by mikeecho

Agree. At the senior levels of the business world, telling ownership to shove it will rarely work in terms of career longevity, but if one were to do that, the only acceptable action is to do all that behind the scenes and then present to the employees and public with a unified front like everyone is on the same page and we believe in the direction we are going.

I'm pretty sure Feaster didn't tell Edwards to shove it, but him coming out to the world and saying he's not the guy to lead a rebuild is less about what he actually thought and more about towing the company line cause Edwards needs to keep bums in the seats and drive ancillary revenue through parking, food, alcohol, merchandise sales, etc... Typically rebuilds are not good for business, although to this point it has worked well for the Flames.

For sure. For all we know, behind closed doors Feaster was proposing trades and rebuild plans that sparked arguments between him and Edwards. In the public eye he is towing the company rope but behind closed doors he disagrees with ownerships direction.

I'm not sure if they still do it with Burke around, but I know King had the final word on most trades. If he doesn't want to rebuild, Feaster could have had 45 trades for Iginla that were vetoed we don't know about.

[Rhubarb]

I would like to wade in on this particular subject. As I recall most people thought that when Jay Feaster took over it would take years to rebuild a team that had uninspired post apex players in the core, that was also full of no movement, no trade clauses, and a prospect system that lacked one thing; prospects, not to mention salary cap issues.

As I recall Jay approached ownership with two plans. Putting two and two together you had to think that one option was a tear down rebuild, he obviously knew the cupboards were bare, anyone with a meddling interest in the team knew that, and I am sure the other was what ownership wanted, ride that horse until it breathes its last.

I personally think that in about 3-5 years the Feaster tenure in Calgary will be looked at very differently when several of his key acquisitions and draft picks become core players, yes including Jankowski.

Feasters trade record is the mainstay of discussion, Iginla, they may have botched the details, but that is all they are, details, Iggy had every card in that particular scenario. Jay, huge cap hit with a player that had underachieved for two years. this one is the one that I think we did not get a decent return on but, not totally out there either, they weren't handing out firsts in that draft, we had three. Regher, If he wasn't playing for Darryl in that style and that team, sorry he wouldn't look so good. Which leads me to Paul Byron; criminally underrated as far as I am concerned around here. As far as my prospect list is concerned, if you want to play in Calgary, Byron, Reinhart, and Ortio are at the top of my draft poll, and if you want to play, you have to play better than them, and when the coach is saying he was the best player in the second half of the year, that says something to me.

Save the best for last; ROR. Feaster is a lawyer, on staff or ownership not sure which, is one of the guys that drafted the new CBA, As far as I am concerned Jay probably had it right, and the league had to go back and cover their collective asses. If someone can prove it for sure before the fiasco started and asses were covered feel free to let me know, but nothing I saw proved Feaster wrong.

Did Feaster do an incredible job, no. Did he do a terrible job as some people claim, sorry but no; at the end of the day you can't polish a turd, and that is what Jay took over, not to mention he was the one that got the first effective coach in quite some time here, and had to deal with ownership that were making decision by the dollar and not what was best for the team.

He was let go because he did what he was supposed to do, take out the garbage. The new G.M can now walk in without the stink of having to do the dirty work, like clean out all of the no trade clauses, trade the face of the franchise who had essentially taken over the team whether he intended it or not, try to restock an almost nonexistent prospect base with a ton of contract issues, to a crowd that has little patience. His track record is not at the top and certainly better than some at the bottom who still have jobs.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Hackey

Thing is I don't have to tell you that I can only sell to you.

So you admit you're just stringing a line of BS and have to sell it us?

IIRC Iginla apparently had 4 teams.

Which he reduced to one after a potential deal had been consummated and needed only his approval to go through. The Boston deal was believed to be done by both the Flames and the Bruins, because the Bruins were on Iginla's short list of four teams.

Realistically you shouldn't say anything if it's gonna negatively impact your return. Lie if you have to and say he has submitted 6 or 8 teams if your gonna release that kind of information.

So you should lie to the teams you are trying to deal with? Yeah, that builds trust throughout the league! Ever wonder why Edmonton is a pariah? Because those are the behaviors they display when dealing with other teams and players.

Also communication was obviously terrible because we had a much better deal from Boston that they thought was done.

And what communication was that? Iginla had submitted a short list of teams he would go to, Feaster negotiated the best deal he could with one of them, but Iginla then screwed the Flames and Bruins by reneging on his promise of going to any of the four teams. The Flames later stated they regretted trusting the player and not getting the list in writing. Doesn't speak highly of Feaster, seeing as he's a lawyer and all, but it also speaks badly of Iginla's professionalism.

QUOTE]I admit his hands were tied but he still botched the trade. [/QUOTE]

How exactly did he botch a trade when he had no one else to negotiate with and the clock had essentially run out? Let me guess, he should have pulled a Burke and not traded Iginla to show the rest of the league what a ruthless negotiator he is? That would have played well with the locals and the rest of the league. Get nothing instead of something? I don't think the deal they got was that bad. Agostino, Hanowski and Klimchuk is a pretty good haul for 20 games of Iginla.

I also think because of Feasters reputation we were low balled.

We got lowballed because there were a select number of teams to deal with and that list was trimmed down to one. Try getting a good deal on anything when you have one vendor to deal with. Iginla screwed the Flames over with his last second decision and the Flames were lucky to get the deal they did. Compare the deal the Flames got compared to what the Islanders got for Vanek. Or better yet, compare it to the deal Burke made for Cammalleri. That is what happens when you end up waiting until the last second. You risk limiting your options and getting screwed over.

[EricCartman]

Originally Posted by New Era

We got lowballed because there were a select number of teams to deal with and that list was trimmed down to one. Try getting a good deal on anything when you have one vendor to deal with. Iginla screwed the Flames over with his last second decision and the Flames were lucky to get the deal they did. Compare the deal the Flames got compared to what the Islanders got for Vanek. Or better yet, compare it to the deal Burke made for Cammalleri. That is what happens when you end up waiting until the last second. You risk limiting your options and getting screwed over.

I'd like to weigh in on this as well. During that season Jay Bou was traded as well for a 1st, Cundari, and Reto Berra. IMO I would've rather taken Detroits offer of Tatar and Nyqvist. I felt that Feaster's demand for a first round draft pick overboard and ended up costing us the better deal. We got lowballed on the fact that Feaster wanted a 1st.

On the other hand Jason Pominville, in the same year, was traded for a first (higher than any of ones we had by trading Iggy or Jay Bou), a second, and Johan Larrson. There was a market for Jay Bou and Feaster got fleeced in the deal in comparison to what Buffalo got for Pominville. IMO his reputation played into the fact that he didn't fair too well in the deal. Berra for a second salvaged this deal for Feaster IMO.

[Hackey]

Jay Feasters trade history is filled with way more fleece jobs than it is with good trades. He's made a few but they are rare and he's never pulled off an outstanding deal. GMs have reputations and you can bet he was seen as a guy who GMs could take advantage of.

The Boston and Pittsburgh deals were both on the table before Iginla nixed one. We unfortunately just got stuck with the worse one. Yes that is Iginla's fault but it was Jays fault for having such a bad deal on the table to begin with. He's the one who negotiated it. The deal was in play before anyone even knew that Iginla would only go to Pittsburgh.

[gargamel]

From B. Sutter's recent interview, we know that King and ownership weren't willing to rebuild until we had some young talent in the system. That doesn't make a lot of sense from a long-term hockey perspective, but it's absolutely the right business decision. The Flames never had to worry about selling tickets as long as the team had Iginla and a shot at making the playoffs, but it would have been impossible to sell casual fans on a rebuild back in 2011 or 2012 when we had pretty much no one to rebuild around. Fans were excited to come check out Monahan, Baertschi, Brodie and the other young guys with potential last year, but you're kidding yourself if you think they'd have rallied around Nemisz and I don't even know who else in the same way if we'd traded Bouwmeester and Iginla 3 years ago. Because of that, it's pretty clear that Feaster didn't have the option of rebuilding back then.

He had no choice but to "go for it" with a team that no GM could have gotten great things out of, but I think he saw the writing on the wall and realized that it was a matter of when, not if, the team would start the rebuild. That's why I'm thankful that the attempts that he made to improve the team didn't have any long-term negative impact on the eventual rebuild. He hung on to draft picks, selected guys with huge potential who he knew wouldn't be ready to contribute for years, made a risk-free signing in Cervenka, and got a gem in Hudler and a decent player (despite what people who forget how he was playing before his injury think) in Wideman. Sure, luck may have played a part in that, if the rumors about his offer to Brad Richards were true, but all that I can judge him on were the moves that he actually made.

Could he have gotten a better return on some trades? I certainly think so, and am more comfortable with Treliving doing the negotiating (though, in fairness, if Feaster had traded a third for Bollig, it would have been one of his worst deals). Having said that, given the constraints that were put on Feaster by ownership and NMCs given out by Sutter, trading was the least important part of his job as we tried to get out of cap hell and transition from being an old team that wasn't good enough to a young team with potential.

We'll have to wait and see what becomes of all of his draft picks, but at this point, I'm satisfied with his tenure as GM.

[Flashpoint]

He almost gave away a first round draft pick for nothing, signed a winger he thought was a center, traded Reggie for the worst defenseman in the NHL, and attempted to sign Brad Richards to a Luongo style contract.

Jay Feaster was nothing short of a god damn FIASCO, and most members of CalgaryPuck could have done better than he could.

[Split98]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Feaster was not a great GM in his time in Calgary.
Feaster was not a terrible GM in his time in Calgary.

Both are true, and both are also the result of things for which he should be credited and blamed, but also with the clear recognition that many such things took place amid circumstances beyond his own control.

Bringing this back up, as it is still really what the back and forth on Feaster comes to.

But for everything that Feaster had done that didn't work out, I challenge someone to find a GM with a flawless record. You are trading and banking on human beings physical attributes and team chemistry, they aren't numbers with predictable outcomes.

Do I love all of his moves? No. Am I happy with the rebuild so far? Absolutely. Do I credit Jay for getting us on the right track? Yes.

But Jay Feaster was most definitely not a fiasco, and there is a zero percent chance you could have done better than he had.

See that kid over there? Tom, or whatever his name is. He doesn't want to sign here and would rather try his chances re-drafting. Give Glen a ring and see what you can get for him. Do better than Jay and I'll be impressed.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Split98

Bringing this back up, as it is still really what the back and forth on Feaster comes to.

But for everything that Feaster had done that didn't work out, I challenge someone to find a GM with a flawless record. You are trading and banking on human beings physical attributes and team chemistry, they aren't numbers with predictable outcomes.

Do I love all of his moves? No. Am I happy with the rebuild so far? Absolutely. Do I credit Jay for getting us on the right track? Yes.

But Jay Feaster was most definitely not a fiasco, and there is a zero percent chance you could have done better than he had.

See that kid over there? Tom, or whatever his name is. He doesn't want to sign here and would rather try his chances re-drafting. Give Glen a ring and see what you can get for him. Do better than Jay and I'll be impressed.

Well I've brought this up a number of times but there was no reason for Feaster to be caught with his pants down and forced into a last minute deal. Backlund had been talking to Tom and knew he didn't want to sign with the Flames so Feaster should have known the position he was in and had time to reach out to other teams to bid on Tom's services. As it is Feaster came out all right probably because he may have been able to accuse the Rangers of tampering but it wasn't because of any forethought on his part.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Rhubarb

...Save the best for last; ROR. Feaster is a lawyer, on staff or ownership not sure which, is one of the guys that drafted the new CBA, As far as I am concerned Jay probably had it right, and the league had to go back and cover their collective asses. If someone can prove it for sure before the fiasco started and asses were covered feel free to let me know, but nothing I saw proved Feaster wrong...

As I recall, the NHL never did actually weigh in on the situation, nor did they offer any clear interpretation of the deal at the time it took place. From what I remember, this was something that was jumped on by Damien Cox, and once he reported it, media outlets, experts and fans all were sort of left to determine for themselves what the language of the CBA meant.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

...Backlund had been talking to Tom and knew he didn't want to sign with the Flames so Feaster should have known the position he was in and had time to reach out to other teams to bid on Tom's services...

Interesting. This is the first I have heard of Backlund's knowledge of the situation. Was this ever reported? Do you have a link.

As for what Feaster "should have known", this is yet again just another excuse on your part to deny him any credit for making a great deal in very difficult circumstances. I understand why you are not happy with the job he did here—and I don't for a second think that he did a great job—but it's patently ridiculous to continue to insist that virtually everything that Feaster did while employed by the Flames was a mistake. Just stop it.

[EricCartman]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

As I recall, the NHL never did actually weigh in on the situation, nor did they offer any clear interpretation of the deal at the time it took place. From what I remember, this was something that was jumped on by Damien Cox, and once he reported it, media outlets, experts and fans all were sort of left to determine for themselves what the language of the CBA meant.

I'm almost certain it was Bill Daly who went on TSN and told them about ROR being on waivers if the Avs did not match the offer.