[Signing] Leafs re-sign Gardiner (5yrs, $4.05 mil AAV)

[d_phaneuf]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

wtf. Just put me on ignore if you have to whine every time I post my opinion. You guys attack my posts when I don't like a move made by the Flames, but also when I'm optimistic about a player?

As a Flames fan, I can watch all 82 games of Brodie. I can also watch 40+ Leafs game a year with a standard Shaw sports package.

O Zone starts: 42.3% for Brodie, 43% for Gardiner
TOI% Quality of Comp: 29.5 for Brodie, 27.9 for Gardiner (significant difference in QoC) (the only Flame who faced tougher competition on the Flames was Gio, who had a Norris calibre season, whereas Gardiner had 3 other Leafs ahead of him)
5v5 CorsiF: 51.5% for Brodie, 46.4% for Gardiner (also consider that the Leafs, while not a good team, were much better than the Flames as a whole last season).

Brodie is at least 2 tiers above Gardiner. He is "much" better than Gardiner.

Not hyperbole. Just overreaction by you.

the issue you are overlooking is Brodie's WOWY's there and also the Corsi by team

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/show...013-14&sit=5v5

Brodie apart from Gio has a cF of 46.4%, with Gio he was 56.2%

Also you mention cF when comparing the two and say that the Leafs were a better team, if you compare the teams by Corsi the Flames were actually 3.7% better

Gardiner actually had the best cF Rel (corsi relative to his teams average) on the leafs at +5.7%

[Arya Stark]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

wtf. Just put me on ignore if you have to whine every time I post my opinion. You guys attack my posts when I don't like a move made by the Flames, but also when I'm optimistic about a player?

As a Flames fan, I can watch all 82 games of Brodie. I can also watch 40+ Leafs game a year with a standard Shaw sports package.

O Zone starts: 42.3% for Brodie, 43% for Gardiner
TOI% Quality of Comp: 29.5 for Brodie, 27.9 for Gardiner (significant difference in QoC) (the only Flame who faced tougher competition on the Flames was Gio, who had a Norris calibre season, whereas Gardiner had 3 other Leafs ahead of him)
5v5 CorsiF: 51.5% for Brodie, 46.4% for Gardiner (also consider that the Leafs, while not a good team, were much better than the Flames as a whole last season).

Brodie is at least 2 tiers above Gardiner. He is "much" better than Gardiner.

Not hyperbole. Just overreaction by you.

Your stats just proved he is better, but not much better. I like Brodie too, but he isn't much better, he is simply better, maybe a half million better.

[savemedrzaius]

Not an overpayment at all. Paying for UFA years here as well. This is just the reality of where the NHL is right now. As salary cap increases players salary increases. Look at what Eller got. If anything this is underpayment for Gardiner. I'm surprised who took this long a contract for only 4 million a season.

[Ashasx]

Brodie was involved in 14.8% of the Flames' offence, compared to Gardiner's 13.4%.

Brodie had 1:46 PP TOI/game compared to Gardiner's 2:16.

Brodie had 1:57 SH TOI/game compared to Gardiner's 0:37.

Guys, it's not close. Brodie is noticeably better offensively while being much better defensively.

[Arya Stark]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Brodie was involved in 14.8% of the Flames' offence, compared to Gardiner's 13.4%.

Brodie had 1:46 PP TOI/game compared to Gardiner's 2:16.

Brodie had 1:57 SH TOI/game compared to Gardiner's 0:37.

Guys, it's not close. Brodie is noticeably better offensively while being much better defensively.

Your stats aren't doing what you think they are doing. You are just proving how close they really are. A 1.4% increase isn't much at all.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Arya Stark

Your stats aren't doing what you think they are doing. You are just proving how close they really are. A 1.4% increase isn't much at all.

Never mind the extra 40 some minutes on the powerplay, or does that somehow not apply?

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by Arya Stark

Your stats aren't doing what you think they are doing. You are just proving how close they really are. A 1.4% increase isn't much at all.

Not sure "1.4% increase" accurately describes the difference, though. 14.8% vs. 13.4% is an increase of 1.4 points with respect to 13.4, so ~10% difference.

[dustygoon]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

http://www.extraskater.com/team/calgary-flames/2013

http://www.extraskater.com/team/toro...ple-leafs/2013

Brodie's advanced numbers last season were nothing short of elite.

yeesh.....look at wideman on that chart. I know you want him for his offense, but not a lot of trust when he's in his own zone. Especially for a guy making this kind of money. Same ZS as ovechkin. Mike Green isn't even that lop sided.

[FlameZilla]

Seems like a massive overpayment for someone who was their bubble D man until recently.

Brodie could probably expect similar +

[savemedrzaius]

Originally Posted by FlameZilla

Seems like a massive overpayment for someone who was their bubble D man until recently.

Brodie could probably expect similar +

He was only a bubble D-man because Carlyle is the Leafs head coach and he is a moron. He makes some mistakes but overall he was one of the Leafs best D-men last year.

[Jake]

It is amazing how much the contract baselines have changed... in January 2013, after 36 and 38 point seasons, Subban signed a two year "show me" 2.85 million AAV contract.

Now, a bit over a year later, we have Gardiner getting 4 million AAV over 5 years? He has had one 30 point season. Seems high to me.

[Poe969]

If Brodie was a leaf, he'd get a bigger contract than Gardner.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by diane_phaneuf

the issue you are overlooking is Brodie's WOWY's there and also the Corsi by team

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/show...013-14&sit=5v5

Brodie apart from Gio has a cF of 46.4%, with Gio he was 56.2%

Also you mention cF when comparing the two and say that the Leafs were a better team, if you compare the teams by Corsi the Flames were actually 3.7% better

Gardiner actually had the best cF Rel (corsi relative to his teams average) on the leafs at +5.7%

But check out Gio apart from Brodie.

It wasn't Gio carrying Brodie, they were a true team

[Enoch Root]

Anyone who thinks that Brodie and Gardiner were at similar levels last year simply wasn't watching.

[Ashasx]

Stephen Burtch ‏@SteveBurtch 9m
Jake Muzzin and TJ Brodie rank 1st and 3rd respectively for "avg dCorsi Impact" over the last 7 seasons -entering their 3rd and 4th yrs now.


Stephen Burtch ‏@SteveBurtch 7m
Brodie has played 3105 minutes at 5v5 - and he already ranks 11th in total dCorsi impact over the last 7 seasons.

[GreenLantern2814]

Does this mean his coach is actually going to play him?

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Jake

It is amazing how much the contract baselines have changed... in January 2013, after 36 and 38 point seasons, Subban signed a two year "show me" 2.85 million AAV contract.

Now, a bit over a year later, we have Gardiner getting 4 million AAV over 5 years? He has had one 30 point season. Seems high to me.

Well one organization consistently wins playoff rounds and the other has played seven post-season games in the last decade.

[schooner]

Originally Posted by Jake

It is amazing how much the contract baselines have changed... in January 2013, after 36 and 38 point seasons, Subban signed a two year "show me" 2.85 million AAV contract.

Now, a bit over a year later, we have Gardiner getting 4 million AAV over 5 years? He has had one 30 point season. Seems high to me.

But dont forget PK is probably looking for 8x8 now. So a hypothetical could look like:

PK - 2 years at 2.85aav plus 8 years at 8 aav = 10 years with total money at 69.7

Gardiner - 5 years at 4.05 aav plus ????, lets say 5 years at 8aav to keep comparison the same = 10 years with total money at 60.25

Of courses a lot can change over the next 5 years, including injuries, performance and inflation, but the idea being a small bridge with a big following contract versus a medium initial contract both has their pros and cons. More than one way to skin a cat.

[Enoch Root]

^ except that ignores the small issue which is that Subban has been an all-star and an Olympian, while Gardiner has been working his way into the Leafs' line up.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Brodie is a significantly better player at this point - equal offensively, much better defensively.

This contract is definitely a comparable, and suggests Brodie is in line for at least 5 x 5 (which is no real surprise)

Had the previous GM not blundered it away, the franchise probably could have locked Brodie up for 5 years at much less an AAV that would be highly beneficial in 2-3 years. I remember it being reported at the time that his camp was heavily pursuing a long term deal.

Probably doesn't sound significant, but once players like baertschi, gaudreau, monohan, bennett, wotherspoon and co start rolling off entry level deals, cap space is going to evaporate.